Code Geass R2, Episode 25- Re: (END)


I’ll comfort you C.C.

Well ladies and gentlemen, it’s finally over. It’s been quite the journey and I’m kind of glad it’s over because at times it was exhausting to spend so much time on it each week. Anyways, this post is limited to discussion of the episode itself, not the entire series. I’ll make a separate post reviewing the series as a whole, so please do your best to focus your comments on the contents of this episode. There’s plenty to talk about with just the final scene so I think it will be alright~

Her eyes look much less creepy this time around, and she looks much more moe. Not sure whether it just took them an episode to find the right proportions or they were just going for shock value last episode. He initially opposes using geass on her to bend her will, but as we find out in a few minutes, using the geass in the end wouldn’t be bending her will very much.


11…lol

I am satisfied with the final battle here between Kallen and Suzaku, there was a good amount of solid action one on one. No tech gimmicks, no keikkau doori, just mano-a-womano fighting. Looks like they saved some budget for the final fight too, it didn’t disappoint.

These lines show that Nunally was thinking of the same thing as Lelouch, to focus the world’s hate on one thing. Lelouch saw that she was now strong enough to think on her own and could entrust her with helping to shape the world. It also allowed him to be able to geass her, because in the end their objectives were the same. Lelouch wanted to focus the world’s hate on himself, and Nunally on Damocles and presumably, herself.


Mmmm…geass moe

That’s it guys, there is officially nobody more badass than Orange-kun. The guy ejects a knightmare out of the Siegfried to go after her, blows it up on top of Mordred, and then he himself leaps out and lands on top of it. This guy is my fucking hero. As for Anya’s memories though, I thought they said she already got them back? I guess they weren’t all the way unlocked? Side materials please.


Some shots of badassery for the road.


You know you’re ass is lame when the cat is the only one at your grave.


Interesting juxtaposition

I find it rather amusing that the first person to figure it out was Kallen, whom they’ve billed this season as a complete and total idiot. Apparently she can’t see through his plans for the past 10 episodes, but hey she gets it now before everyone else. Whee! You still destroyed her character Sunrise! I’m not bitter, really!

It’s good to see that Suzaku can still dodge bullets, as he’s been doing since season one. He is definitely the reincarnation of Kira “Jesus” Yamato, because not only does he dodge bullets but he comes back from supposed death.

Some serious homolust vibes in these scenes, but that’s to be expected. Overall I think they did the setup for Lelouch’s death scene pretty well, I wasn’t blown away but I wasn’t disappointed either. They could have made it extremely lame, but instead opted for something a bit more traditional.


Nunally’s geass of mind reading or convenient plot device for Lelouch’s redemption is his sister’s eyes? You decide!

I actually will admit I got choked up here for Nunally. I know I’ve railed on her a lot lately, mostly because of the writing of her character, but I still have an emotional attachment. Nunally’s wailing wasn’t all that bad either, it didn’t make me cringe or anything like that. I also enjoyed how once again Taniguchi was reaching back to previous episodes to parallel current ones. Lelouch dying in Nunally’s arms while the world shouts “Zero!” draws from Euphemia’s death in episode 23 of season one, which is one of the top 5 anime episodes of all time.

Prime Minister? Are you fucking kidding me? Prime Minister? The guy is a complete idiot how could he lead anything effectively? For Christ’s sake. And Tamaki running a bar…that’s fucking lol.

Man, half of these people should be dead, including the bride and the groom. Conspicuously absent is Xing Ke, who presumably died from his blood coughing illness. I’m also lolling at “nani mai hanni?” being included at the wedding.


Wait for it…

YES FUCK YES, fanart comes to life! Orange-kun as an orange farmer with Anya of all people. I really fell out of my chair here, for obvious reasons. It’s really unfortunate though that it wasn’t a Orange x Meido end, I didn’t see her anywhere in the epilogue. I do see some Orange x Anya doujins incoming though, they could be strangely arousing. Hey, maybe Sayoko and Orange adopted Anya, that would be the best ending of all imo.

Alright, well here’s my main problem with this episode. Before we get to my rant, let’s lay out the issues here regarding whether or not Lelouch is dead. One can think about C.C.’s intonation and inflection and try to compare it with how she spoke with Marianne in the past. You can also consider whether she tilted her head back to look up to the sky (which is where you look when you talk to dead people it seems) or to the unknown guy driving the cart. As for the origami, it would be pretty strange for C.C. to keep it as a memento to Nunally since she’s not dead and she’s not her sister, it’s more likely that it’s something Lelouch would have kept as a memento. You also should consider the many many ways in which people have survived certain death in this show- Sayoko, Guilford (lol, in Lelouch’s death scene they even gave the guy a gun, isn’t he blind?), Nunally, Cornelia, etc. Plus there are plenty of options available, most prominently the code method, whether it was transferred before he went up to get himself “killed” or they did it after. They give lots of hints, and it’s something that I’m sure will be discussed a lot.

On to my rant. Basically, I hate this ending. I hate all such ambiguous endings, which is why I don’t like Eva. Eva would have been a good show were it not for the lame endings of the TV series and EoE. I don’t like ambiguous endings, I like solid endings that tell me what happens, I don’t want to interpret anything. Maybe Taniguchi was like, “hey I want to be like Anno so let’s make this B.S. ending so people will talk about it a lot and buy Geass DVDs!” Hey Taniguchi, I hate Anno, but I can say that you are no Anno. So fuck you Taniguchi, fuck you.

Other than that I was generally satisfied with the way it ended. There were plenty of opportunities for stupid plot twist endings, but they didn’t go that path and went for a more traditional and somewhat obvious one. It was frankly refreshing for it to end on a generally positive and clear end (with the obvious exception of Lelouch’s survival). Stay tuned over the next couple of days for a full series review which will take up an entirely new post.

Next Episode
One can only hope for some OVAs and side materials! Lot’s of loose ends are still around (C.C.’s name, the Knight of Nine, etc.) that can be talked about. As for the next season, I’m going to be co-blogging Gundam 00 with Crusader in a similar fashion to how he has contributed to my Geass posts. Aside from that I have no idea, I don’t think I can do 6 months of Clannad and I don’t have much spare time these days so I’ll probably pick up one of the lighter comedies. As for Nogizaka Haruka, expect an episode 12 and final review post this week.


Crusader’s Angry Drunken Rant

Because it’s fun.

Thus did Nunnally hand over her favorite vibrator to her dear onii-chan. Suzaku did like…

Nothing can come between their love…

Fuck yeah! Toast!

Wow well that was a lot of bullshit served along with the mecha fights though Todou pussied out in the end. I am very much glad that this is over Cornelia is still alive and still full of fight, Villeta is still carrying Ougi’s wehrbietrag, Lulu is dead, and all is for the most part well. Much homolust as Suzaku thrusted his swords of +69 penetration into Lulu, but at this point it can’t be helped. SuzakuxLulu ending confirmed…

Such a pity that Kallen didn’t run into any one with toast in her mouth I was giddy when I saw it as it would have finally resolved the debate of striped or strawberries. I can’t believe that Nani mai Hunni and Rivalz are so heavily hinted at being a couple but I guess air heads have an affinity for one another. I’d be lying if I said I cared any more but it over after watching this schlock I now have a much greater appreciation for Gundam 00, finally we can back to a series with an actual kill count going. Still my Cornelia-hime was just delicious.

You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know Cornelia-hime had no hand in making this war, and I know Cornelia-hime will make more sacrifices today than any of you to secure peace. But you cannot have peace and a division of our country. If Cornelian-Britannia submits to a division now, it will not stop, but will go on until we reap the fate of Africa, which is eternal war. Cornelian-Britannia does and must assert its authority, wherever it once had power; for, if it relaxes one bit to pressure, it is gone, and I believe that such is the national feeling.

The only people with a brain, how few yet remain…

What is it?

Look I know things between us didn’t work out…and about last night…

I just wanted to say that it’s alright and that I will always love you. I will never forget the time we had together, be safe beloved.

Ten years ago, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn’t commit. These men and women promptly escaped from a maximum-security stockade to the Tokyo underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem…if no one else can help…and if you can find them…maybe you can hire…The A-Team.

Best shot-gun wedding ever!

Make way for Prince Ali!
Say hey! It’s Prince Ali!

Hey! Clear the way of his taxi cab!
Hey you!
Let him through!
Or it’s you he’ll stab!
You don’t wanna be the first one to earn his ire!

Make way!
Here he comes!
Sound the bells! Load the guns!
‘Cause you’re gonna hate this guy!

Prince Ali! Murderous He!
Ali al-Sarshes
Kills for fun
Give him a gun
Then watch the spree!
Now Gundam pilots are dead.
And Saji’s sister’s vent-ed
‘Cause Ali’s sick in the head–Undoubtedly!

Prince Ali! Mighty is he!
Ali al-Sarshes!
Strong as ten regular men
Take it from me!
He faced the Thrones Trinity
Who’d make a saner man flee
But whos Gundam kill-count’s now three?
Why, Prince Ali!

He’s got so many shadowy backers
Private armies
But they’d work for free
When it comes to expensive mobile suits
Yeah he’s had a few,
I’m telling you,
It’s a world-wide conspiracy!

Prince Ali! Handsome is he!
Ali al-Sarshes!
That goatee! I wish it could be!
Closer to me!
Well, get on out in that square
Come steel your nerves and prepare!
To gawk and grovel and stare at Prince Ali!

He’s got ninety-five brown Kurdish jihad-kuns!
(He’s called the jihad, let’s fight the jihad)
And to join him he charges no fee!
(‘Cept your parents! Kill your parents!)
He bends nations to his will for fun!
(Proud to work for him)
They bow to his whim!
It’s best for them!
They’re just scared into loyalty to Ali!
Prince Ali!

Prince Ali!
The adversary! Ali al-Sarshes!
Mike Trinity, wishes that he, was half as crazy
Well he saw the Zwei and thought “Why,–I think I’ll give it a try.”
Next thing you know, Johan’s hit the floor,
He’s got beams, GN drives
And fang-oos galore!
Takes an alias, heads up to space,
And shows Sexy Lockon what for!
Can’t flee from Prince Ali!

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207 Comments

  1. Halcyon
    Posted October 1, 2008 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    @Zentari

    Staying down and playing dead is like trying to hold your breath ? Fascinating…

    Uhhh. Given the circumstances, both are similar in that they are involuntary acts which are beyond the control of an individual, sure.

    None of these people had any special power which is something that you once again conveniently ignore.

    Uh…Pretty sure Rolo had a Geass…
    Also pretty sure Lelouch’s “special power” was Mind Control. Not Rising from the dead.

    Your opinion does not equal a fact plus there are god knows how many series that haven’t ended conclusively.Add to this that even if Lelouch lives the storyline is over and your whole point is moot.

    IF Lelouch lives it leaves an open-ending which allows Sunrise the opportunity to produce more Code Geass material. The reason why Lelouch’s death is conclusive is specifically because it allows the writer to bring the series to a definitive conclusion without room for additional series.

    Which is directly against WHAT THE DIRECTOR/WRITER said himself. I’ve highlighted the important parts for you.

    See here:

    “I’ve finished the script for Code Geass! Finished!
    It’s not “to be continued”, nor “end of this season”. It’s over, finished, the end. Starting from the planning of this anime, it’s been 5 full years. Although I’ve been having planty of jobs, this has been the longest one for me.
    My computer fell silent when I was writing the last episode. I had to try to recover it while making the final check on the last episode. It’s quite a handfull. But the work in studio isn’t done yet. And my job isn’t completely finished either. Laughter or tears, the ending is only 4 months away. As for the production staff, who will see the ending in a few weeks, I wish for them to join me in the joy of seeing the end of Code Geass soon.”

    You can read it yourself in the original japanese Here:
    http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=up282579ot8.jpg if you don’t believe me =P

    Sure there isn’t , did you miss the final scene ? I like how you claim that the fans are wishing for it based on one final scene and yet you yourself are convinced by one scene too.

    You mean, the final scene that didn’t show Lelouch at all? That one? Because he’s dead. Is that why they didn’t show Lelouch alive and well?

    So her being a natural mind reader is anything LESS than imposible to you ?

    They very clearly showed Nunnally seeing into Lelouch’s memories so….yes.
    They never showed Lelouch again after he died so…. I would think it’s pretty obvious which one is more plausible.

    If that is not the case then you are free to explain how it happened other than “it just did ” . Until then I CAN use it.

    Already explained it. That’s part of Nunnally’s power. Re-read a few replies above.

    I am ? From what I understand that works both ways and even if we disregard that there’s a LONG way from negative proof to outright ignoring FACTS merely because you can’t explain them.

    Yup. It’s negative proof. They’ve already showed Lelouch dying. I’ve even pointed out the exact time in the episode where he died 19 minutes and 35 seconds. Therefore, I can clearly say he died.

    They never showed Lelouch reviving, coming back to life or even a shot of his face after that. If you can prove me wrong, go ahead and try.

    Let’s see , Guillford got BLOWN to pieces and survived.

    LOL what? They never showed Guilford’s body at any time. What they showed was his Knightmare Frame being swallowed by a ball of light. His body was never shown at any point during the episode. His Knightmare Frame was never “blown to pieces” as you allege as the bomb wasn’t an explosive bomb. It was an implosive bomb.

    Cornelia was made like swiss cheese.I don’t know about blood but I certainly proved my point.

    Swiss Cheese? They showed her getting hit by 2 bullets. They didn’t show her closing her eyes or clutching her chest in a pool of her own blood. None of the wounds Cornelia suffered were shown to be fatal, unlike Lelouch who took a sword THROUGH his body to the hilt, fell over and had a trail of blood following his body as he slide down his parade float.

    Plus you seem to be mistaken.This arguement is about Lelouch living in the END it is NOT about him surviving being impaled by a sword (which is what you yourself have already said).

    Uhh… the only way he could live in the END, is if he survived being impaled by the sword. The two are synonymous. HE can’t live at the end if he didn’t survive getting impaled by Suzaku’s sword.

    Then again, they never showed him alive so….it’s probably because he died.

    Prove he’s alive. Show me the scene in the last episode that shows Lelouch’s face alive and smiling.

    • Posted June 3, 2012 at 9:41 am | Permalink

      Okay so if you still haven’t seen the ORIGINAL JAPANESE ending where he’s alive i’d be more then happy to show you. I honestly think what people don’t get is that there were 3 THREE endings 2 of them leaked out before they could take it away. The first one, the ORIGINAL one was where they show him smiling at the end driving the wagon. 2nd one is where they show his face but but all you see really is his purple eyes . 3rd his where it ending with C2.
      Taniguchi took away the original ending because he wanted people to decide for themselves whether he was alive or not for themselves, but the thing is Nunnally touch her brother and saw everything no the only other person in he series who could do that was C2 she’s immotral, when Lelouch is in the other world with his parents he stops his dad from taking the code, in return he gets the code that makes you IMMORTAL like C2 and gets full geass like C2, episode 21 was SO important that had pay close attention too to understand the ending. On top of that at the Ending c2 says,”I said that the Geass was the power of the king that brings one solitude. I think maybe that’s not quite correct. Right Lelouch?” He has the power and immorality just like her now, i’m pretty sure she’s saying she’s not alone anymore cause she has him now.
      I mean this just how i see it cause there ALOT of proof backing that backs up that he is alive. But anyways have a good day. :)

  2. evaric
    Posted October 1, 2008 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    @Halcyon: Prove he’s alive. Show me the scene in the last episode that shows Lelouch’s face alive and smiling.

    That’s an irresponsible demand to make, since everyone knows that producing that proof is impossible. He will never be seen alive again, so people must form their own opinions of his fate after his death from what they consider evidence. If you don’t believe the ‘evidence’ has meaning, that’s fine, you’re free to have your own opinion. If you choose to enforce that opinion on others though, while the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, the responsibility of showing the ‘evidence’ has no validity falls to you.

    How you answered the initial counterpoints were fine, but the latest ones have been pretty rude and irritated-sounding. Though honestly it’s somewhat understandable considering the only quality responses you had were from akusatou, the rest didn’t frame their responses in a very effective manner at all due to writing their posts in anger, poor grammar, overemphasizing minor points, or just writing a huge continuous block of text. Still though, impolite is impolite whether it has some justification or not.

    The key point, and probably the only important clue that Lelouch is alive, is a question you were pondering in your first post: “how Nunnally can uncover Lelouch’s entire plot just by touching his hand?” Your answer for that was that “Nunnally has been able to tell whether or not people have lied to her by touching their hands for quite a few episodes now.” As noted in my previous post, she has only been shown to use her lie-detection ability when the person tells her something.

    The other answer you gave was “Or lie detector ‘ability’ could’ve always been “mind-reading” from the beginning. Hence how she was able to tell how people were lying to her from touching their hands. For all we know, the reason ‘images’ weren’t shown when she was ‘reading minds’ was because she was ‘blind’ at the time. And the reason ‘images’ showed when she ‘read Lelouch’s mind’ was because she could now see.” While this isn’t impossible, it is highly improbable since there have been no examples of supernatural powers outside of geass.

    There does not have to be anything supernatural about lie-detection, it’s likely been around since the beginning of communication. Police have trained in methods to detect lies by observing tone of voice, body language, facial cues, and choice of words. I’m sure you’ve been able to tell when someone is lying to you on more than a few occasions too, right? When people tell a lie, their sympathetic nervous system reacts automatically and involuntarily… blood pressure, pulse, and respiration fluctuate, the body can stiffen, and muscles can twitch. The first 3 are measurable by a polygraph (lie-detector). With Nunnally’s heightened sense of touch due to her lack of sight, the best conclusion is that the writers wanted her lie-detection ability to be similar to a polygraph. This is reasonable, no?

    So barring the off-chance of psychic abilities, the conclusion one must draw from her being able to see Lelouch’s memories is that he must not only have a Code, but it must be active. This is because memory transfer seems to be unique to those possessing the Code. This is the key point, since everything beyond this point are just theories on how he could be in possession of a Code (covered in my previous post) which do not need to be debunked if one can debunk this conclusion. You were right when you said it yourself, “When the foundation for the argument is flawed, the entire argument is flawed.”

    Personally, I wanted Lelouch to die. I would have rated the series higher if he had since it made a fitting ending and I’m not a fan of “everybody’s happy in the end” endings. But I can’t deny that the fact that Nunnally saw images when she made contact with him indicated that he had an active Code at the time of his death and managed to survive.

    • Lore
      Posted November 25, 2009 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

      I believe it’s worth mentioning, that the temperature of most peoples hands will cool when they tell a lie. Classic fight-flight response – your body restricts most blood flow to your extremities.

      http://www.cliving.org/10secondstresstest.htm
      Not a great source, but I cbf spending much time looking

      I apologise if this has been discussed already, but can C2 commune with the god-collective thingy?

  3. Halcyon
    Posted October 2, 2008 at 5:10 am | Permalink

    @Evaric

    The flaw in your reasoning lies thusly,

    In order for a Code to be activated the recipient of the Code must first die (we saw this with Charles in a prior episode).

    As I’ve already pointed out several replies ago, Lelouch was still alive and actively conversing with Nunnally when Nunnally peered into his memories.

    Considering that Lelouch also, did not have a Code sigil marked anywhere on his body at the time of Nunnally peered into his memories, we can conclude that Nunnally seeing into his memories is unrelated to the Code.

    Additionally, with Nunnally being as close to Lelouch as she was, don’t you think she would’ve noticed a Code on his body?, having already seen Suzaku and Lelouch in the World of C through his memories and being debriefed by Schneizel previously on the nature and extent of Lelouch’s Geass, Nunnally (remember, she can tell lies from the truth) would’ve been able to tell if Lelouch was truly dead or simply ‘faking’.

    Additionally (remember, Nunnally saw into his memories), Nunnally was able to see Suzaku and Lelouch’s plan vis a vis that exchange. It doesn’t seem to indicate that Lelouch planned on surviving the Zero Requiem. If he did, at the time that he discussed the plan with Suzaku, Nunnally would’ve seen that in his memories.

    She also (through the use of memory reading) would’ve been able to tell if Lelouch had received a code.

    Since Nunnally is still grieving over the fact that Lelouch died in her arms, we can safely conclude that Lelouch is actually dead.

    In summation, there is proof of Lelouch being conclusively dead. There isn’t any proof of him reviving. Therein lies the crux of the argument.

    What most people are doing, is assuming he’s alive based on 2 words of text that aren’t directed at any character on-screen.

    That’s speculation. While speculation is fine, to confuse speculation with “facts” is simply wrong, inaccurate and grossly ignorant.

    My position and replies, have served to separate “facts” from assumptions. Which is why I keep driving home the point that, they very clearly showed Lelouch dying in Nunnally’s arms. That is indisputable.

    They did not show Lelouch on-screen again after that. Nor was there any indication of Lelouch surviving. That, is also indisputable.

    What IS disputable is the meaning behind C.C.’s last line which is open to interpretation. But if you look at it in the context of the episode (hell, if you look at it in the context of the entire series), it seems more likely that she was talking to a friend who has passed on by reflecting on past events overall, rather than talking to someone beside her.

  4. akusatou
    Posted October 2, 2008 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    “Are you even reading? Seriously, the only thing that grants immortality is a Code. Before Lelouch shot Charles, Charles was not shown having a code. Therefore, Charles only became immortal AFTER he took the code from V.V.
    There has been ZERO EVIDENCE to support that immortality exists outside of having a code. And since there was no Code on Charles, until Lelouch shot him, he therefore was not immortal.”
    Well that is another assumption on your part, the code does not have to be visible to be present. If that were the case you would always see the code on C.C. whenever she is present. It only highlights in situations that are of dramatic importance. Zero Evidence does not prove the impossibility of such a probability. You have only witnessed two exchanges of the code which have lead you to believe that all instances of the transfers must follow the strict rules that both the giver and recipient of the code must die to make this transfer. Have you ever thought that perhaps, these were shown specifically to you to give you that impression so that later on, when your paradigm has been broken, you refuse to accept that the rules you set into place were in fact just circumstantial to the events you had seen.

    If we erase all the rules you have placed upon the transfer of the code and assume that the code can be transferred without the necessity of death that you hold so dear. It is entirely possible that V.V. could have transferred the code to Charles. Have you ever seen a magician perform an act before? Shifting your attention is an effective way to deceive you into believing certain truths before revealing the true nature of the trick. The same can be said for the ending of the series, we see the death of Lelouch in plain sight with the world agreeing that he is truly dead, and the next thing you know, you see a very ambiguous scene where an unidentified person is steering the cart that C.C. is riding on.

    If you would like to understand more of this concept called “shifting the paradigm” look up some information on what is called the black swan. Essentially the point being is originally in Europe, swans were colored white and that was all that was known about the swan and everyone was taught that swans could only exist as white. Then when they were exploring Australia, they had seen something that no other person in this world could believe. There was a black swan. This shook the very foundation that their belief of what a swan should be. I believe that you are looking at the transfer as a white swan and that it cannot exist in any other manner.

    “If there were 100% true then Charles wouldn’t have been able to take C.C.’s code. Marianne specifically said that Charles could’ve granted C.C’s wish if she had given Charles her code. The code can be transferred to any double-geass user.
    Like I said, when any of you can point out any time in the episode that they SHOW Lelouch alive, then I’ll recant my position.
    Otherwise, dead until proven alive.”

    The only transfer we have seen have existed between the matured Geass User and the Code Carrier. We have no knowledge of the transfer or unification of code carriers. Since you have no evidence to support the transfer of the code between carriers, you can’t assume it cannot be done. It is also entirely possible that C.C. simply told a lie regarding the full requirements of the transfer in order to give Lelouch a basic understanding of the transfer. It is not like the situation at hand was the perfect place to give Lelouch the full details of the transfer. She even told Lelouch that her only wish was to die when that was clearly not the case. Sometimes Occam’s razor makes sense and that the simplest explanation is often the case, however when dealing with entertainment, many times, the simplest explanation is not the case, only because it promotes excitement and the exhilaration of being exposed to something unthinkable.

    I know that a lot of these are more assumptions on my part, but you have to also recognize that this is anime. There are no rules or restrictions that are bound by common sense and the logic and rationale that exists in the real world. These are all created by the author of the series to entertain us with thought provoking scenarios with unrealistic expectations. Every person will interpret what they see to be different in regards to the circumstantial events that surround the entire series.

    I completely understand that if taken at face value, all of the events surrounding the finale of the series points out that Lelouch is in fact dead and is not the driver of the cart. It is when our imaginations and hopeful expectations examine the little tidbits of information that is hidden throughout the series, be it purposefully placed or accidental, we still have a basis from which we derive these alternative conclusions.

  5. akusatou
    Posted October 2, 2008 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    In response to your first and second comment:
    Well that is another assumption on your part, the code does not have to be visible to be present. If that were the case you would always see the code on C.C. whenever she is present. It only highlights in situations that are of dramatic importance. Zero Evidence does not prove the impossibility of such a probability. You have only witnessed two exchanges of the code which have lead you to believe that all instances of the transfers must follow the strict rules that both the giver and recipient of the code must die to make this transfer. Have you ever thought that perhaps, these were shown specifically to you to give you that impression so that later on, when your paradigm has been broken, you refuse to accept that the rules you set into place were in fact just circumstantial to the events you had seen.

    If we erase all the rules you have placed upon the transfer of the code and assume that the code can be transferred without the necessity of death that you hold so dear. It is entirely possible that V.V. could have transferred the code to Charles. Have you ever seen a magician perform an act before? Shifting your attention is an effective way to deceive you into believing certain truths before revealing the true nature of the trick. The same can be said for the ending of the series, we see the death of Lelouch in plain sight with the world agreeing that he is truly dead, and the next thing you know, you see a very ambiguous scene where an unidentified person is steering the cart that C.C. is riding on.

    If you would like to understand more of this concept called “shifting the paradigm” look up some information on what is called the black swan. Essentially the point being is originally in Europe, swans were colored white and that was all that was known about the swan and everyone was taught that swans could only exist as white. Then when they were exploring Australia, they had seen something that no other person in this world could believe. There was a black swan. This shook the very foundation that their belief of what a swan should be. I believe that you are looking at the transfer as a white swan and that it cannot exist in any other manner.

    In response to your third comment:
    The only transfer we have seen have existed between the matured Geass User and the Code Carrier. We have no knowledge of the transfer or unification of code carriers. Since you have no evidence to support the transfer of the code between carriers, you can’t assume it cannot be done. It is also entirely possible that C.C. simply told a lie regarding the full requirements of the transfer in order to give Lelouch a basic understanding of the transfer. It is not like the situation at hand was the perfect place to give Lelouch the full details of the transfer. She even told Lelouch that her only wish was to die when that was clearly not the case. Sometimes Occam’s razor makes sense and that the simplest explanation is often the case, however when dealing with entertainment, many times, the simplest explanation is not the case, only because it promotes excitement and the exhilaration of being exposed to something unthinkable.

    I know that a lot of these are more assumptions on my part, but you have to also recognize that this is anime. There are no rules or restrictions that are bound by common sense and the logic and rationale that exists in the real world. These are all created by the author of the series to entertain us with thought provoking scenarios with unrealistic expectations. Every person will interpret what they see to be different in regards to the circumstantial events that surround the entire series.

    I completely understand that if taken at face value, all of the events surrounding the finale of the series points out that Lelouch is in fact dead and is not the driver of the cart. It is when our imaginations and hopeful expectations examine the little tidbits of information that is hidden throughout the series, be it purposefully placed or accidental, we still have a basis from which we derive these alternative conclusions.

  6. akusatou
    Posted October 2, 2008 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    In response to your first and second comment:
    Well that is another assumption on your part, the code does not have to be visible to be present. If that were the case you would always see the code on C.C. whenever she is present. It only highlights in situations that are of dramatic importance. Zero Evidence does not prove the impossibility of such a probability. You have only witnessed two exchanges of the code which have lead you to believe that all instances of the transfers must follow the strict rules that both the giver and recipient of the code must die to make this transfer. Have you ever thought that perhaps, these were shown specifically to you to give you that impression so that later on, when your paradigm has been broken, you refuse to accept that the rules you set into place were in fact just circumstantial to the events you had seen.

    If we erase all the rules you have placed upon the transfer of the code and assume that the code can be transferred without the necessity of death that you hold so dear. It is entirely possible that V.V. could have transferred the code to Charles. Have you ever seen a magician perform an act before? Shifting your attention is an effective way to deceive you into believing certain truths before revealing the true nature of the trick. The same can be said for the ending of the series, we see the death of Lelouch in plain sight with the world agreeing that he is truly dead, and the next thing you know, you see a very ambiguous scene where an unidentified person is steering the cart that C.C. is riding on.

    If you would like to understand more of this concept called “shifting the paradigm” look up some information on what is called the black swan. Essentially the point being is originally in Europe, swans were colored white and that was all that was known about the swan and everyone was taught that swans could only exist as white. Then when they were exploring Australia, they had seen something that no other person in this world could believe. There was a black swan. This shook the very foundation that their belief of what a swan should be. I believe that you are looking at the transfer as a white swan and that it cannot exist in any other manner.

  7. Jay
    Posted October 2, 2008 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    @Halcyon:
    Your arguments are flawed in one crucial area:

    Sunrise wants to make money. If Lelouch is alive, then they can make a season 3, an OVA, or products to sell.

    Sunrise made the ending ambiguous. You can’t argue that the ending is not remotely ambiguous. That said, why would Sunrise try to make the audience question the “obvious” (Lelouch stabbed = Lelouch dead) if they later state “Yeah. He’s dead.” Given the history of the show (I hope to God you’ve watched this show) Sunrise seems to like to mindf*** its viewers again and again and again.

    Also, dismissing arguments because it’s based on “fanboy logic” is foolish. Sunrise can make up any BS they want. That said, the more “fanboys” cry out for Lelouch to be alive, the more Sunrise knows it can sell more Geass products.

  8. Zentari
    Posted October 2, 2008 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    ‘Uhhh. Given the circumstances, both are similar in that they are involuntary acts which are beyond the control of an individual, sure.’

    So playing dead is effectively imposible *snicker*?

    ‘Uh…Pretty sure Rolo had a Geass…’

    Which is what caused his death.

    ‘Also pretty sure Lelouch’s “special power” was Mind Control. Not Rising from the dead. ‘

    If you are refering to his geass then we are in complete agreement.We do not attribute his ressurection to it though , just in case you are getting confused.

    ‘ .’

    I do not doubt him saying that. I’m gonna skip writing paragraphs and just tl;dr : Lelouch living or not does not affect in any way the definite end of geass.

    ‘You mean, the final scene that didn’t show Lelouch at all? That one? Because he’s dead. Is that why they didn’t show Lelouch alive and well?’

    Given how many times a dead character in this show has come alive from the dead AND the circumstances surrounding Lelouch your definite proff isn’t so definite to say the least .

    ‘Already explained it. That’s part of Nunnally’s power. Re-read a few replies above.’

    You just said IT JUST IS, you did NOT explain it in ANY way what-so-ever , which can be said about the grounds of your entire arguement too: ‘I am right because they SHOWED HIM DYING. LOL.’ ,nevermind the fact of him dying being IRRELAVANT to him living in the end (IRL, ,you WOULD be right since however this is an anime with IMMORTALS in it ,you are not ).

    ‘LOL what? They never showed Guilford’s body at any time. What they showed was his Knightmare Frame being swallowed by a ball of light. His body was never shown at any point during the episode. His Knightmare Frame was never “blown to pieces” as you allege as the bomb wasn’t an explosive bomb. It was an implosive bomb.’

    So he survived a mini black hole with no explaination at all. Thank you for clearing it up.

    ‘Swiss Cheese? They showed her getting hit by 2 bullets. They didn’t show her closing her eyes or clutching her chest in a pool of her own blood. None of the wounds Cornelia suffered were shown to be fatal, unlike Lelouch who took a sword THROUGH his body to the hilt, fell over and had a trail of blood following his body as he slide down his parade float.’

    1: Count again
    2: Being served a bullet breakfast and left to die guarantee’s a slow death.Except if you believe that people CAN’T play dead but can instead stop their blood flow [/sarcasm] .

    ‘ The two are synonymous. ‘

    This is the biggest flaw of your arguement.I have time and time again pointed it out.

    This is the last post in this arguement for me , feel free to say etc do whatever you want with what I wrote.Perceive it as a personal attack if you like but I really ,REALLY can’t understand you.

  9. Posted October 2, 2008 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    I thought it was awesome! Especially the song Hitomi sang at the end. It was a nice closing for the series. I’ll miss the music…

    Check my new Anime Music blog:

  10. Halcyon
    Posted October 2, 2008 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    @Jay

    Your arguments are flawed in one crucial area:

    Sunrise wants to make money. If Lelouch is alive, then they can make a season 3, an OVA, or products to sell.

    I’ve already posted that Taniguchi (the writer/director) of Geass has already admitted in an interview that he wrote the finale in order to avoid making another Season of Code Geass.

    Sunrise has no control over the writing/scripts. They are the production company. They only animate the scripts based on CLAMP’s character designs.

    Sunrise made the ending ambiguous. You can’t argue that the ending is not remotely ambiguous.

    Again, “Sunrise” doesn’t write the scripts. Please, please, PLEASE stop using that as an excuse to cling to poor logic. I’ve already posted the interview with the director of Geass both translated into English and in it’s original Japanese.

    Also, dismissing arguments because it’s based on “fanboy logic” is foolish. Sunrise can make up any BS they want. That said, the more “fanboys” cry out for Lelouch to be alive, the more Sunrise knows it can sell more Geass products.

    Evidence > Speculation. Dismissing arguments that have no basis in fact is pretty much what any rational person does.

    So playing dead is effectively imposible *snicker*?

    I’ve already posted that Nunnally would’ve been able to detect if Lelouch was ‘faking’ death through the use of her Memory Seeing and/or Lie Detector abilities.

    Thus, faking death from Nunnally would’ve been impossible. Your Theory has been Negated.

    Which is what caused his death.

    Wow. A geass user not coming back from the dead. Imagine that!

    If you are refering to his geass then we are in complete agreement.We do not attribute his ressurection to it though , just in case you are getting confused.

    No, you just attribute a “code” to his ressurection when there is no evidence of Lelouch possessing a Code and no evidence of a code being transferred at any point in time.

    I do not doubt him saying that. I’m gonna skip writing paragraphs and just tl;dr : Lelouch living or not does not affect in any way the definite end of geass.

    What it affects is the ability of the production company to continue the series, which is exactly what the director didn’t want to happen as I’ve already posted.

    Given how many times a dead character in this show has come alive from the dead AND the circumstances surrounding Lelouch your definite proff isn’t so definite to say the least .

    Again, negative proof fallacy. You can’t use other dead characters as an example of Lelouch being brought back. These dead characters were brought back for plot purposes in later episodes. There aren’t going to be any additional episodes of Geass for Lelouch to be brought back to and furthermore, the story is already finished with his death. There’s no reason to bring him back, unlike the other characters (Cornelia, Nunnally, Sayoko).

    I can prove he’s dead because there is a death scene. Where’s your proof that he’s alive? Where’s the scene in the episode that show Lelouch alive?

    You just said IT JUST IS, you did NOT explain it in ANY way what-so-ever , which can be said about the grounds of your entire arguement too: ‘I am right because they SHOWED HIM DYING. LOL.’ ,nevermind the fact of him dying being IRRELAVANT to him living in the end (IRL, ,you WOULD be right since however this is an anime with IMMORTALS in it ,you are not ).

    Considering, the only “immortals” are ones possessing a distinct signifying mark on their bodies and the character in question did not have that mark, my logic would be superior to yours. At least, my position contains evidence you can point to. Yours only contains a string of assumptions and guesswork.

    So he survived a mini black hole with no explaination at all. Thank you for clearing it up.

    Why would you need an exposition for a minor character who only had 2 additional scenes? For what purpose would that serve the plot development? It’s not like he was the main character or anything.

    1: Count again
    2: Being served a bullet breakfast and left to die guarantee’s a slow death.Except if you believe that people CAN’T play dead but can instead stop their blood flow [/sarcasm] .

    Again, they never showed that any of those bullet wounds she suffered were fatal. At any point in time. Hell, they didn’t even show WHERE the bullet wounds were. There was a few bursts of blood, followed by her falling down with her back towards the camera. They never showed her face or any of the wounds. Therefore, the bullet wounds could’ve been anywhere on her body that were non-lethal.

    This is not the same as getting run through your chest with a sword and leaving a large trail of blood before dying in front of thousands of witnesses (including those who were aware of the existence of the Code, like Kallen for one).

    This is the biggest flaw of your arguement.I have time and time again pointed it out.

    My argument has no flaws. I say he’s dead because he very clearly died. Again, there is no scene showing Lelouch afterwards. Claiming that he’s alive because of a bunch of theories is speculation without evidence, not fact. Stating that he died, is very clearly a fact.

    Fact > Speculation.

    I can support my position with proof and evidence, why can’t you do the same?

  11. Chaotic Reaper
    Posted October 2, 2008 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    @halcyon
    you are indeed a fool and ignorant not only have you been proved wrong but your response to most of them has no explanation you just say it just is or does. I left any hope of argueing with a fool and apparently zentari has to. We’ve pointed everypeice of evidence towards you that proves you wrong and you’ve ignoredit rather than try to listen to reason. Ive lost interest in argueing along time ago so read this as you will and ignore it just like we know you will.

  12. Jay
    Posted October 2, 2008 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    Oh, sry, ttldr.
    Because you’re all arguing your asses off about a TV show. It blows my mind. Go argue about the existence of God or the economy or something.

  13. akusatou
    Posted October 2, 2008 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    I don’t like the spam filter…. I wrote a response and they won’t let me post it. :’(

  14. Posted October 2, 2008 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    Hey ladies and gents lets keep it civil and back off the personal attacks.

  15. evaric
    Posted October 2, 2008 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    @Halcyon
    The flaw in your reasoning lies thusly, In order for a Code to be activated the recipient of the Code must first die (we saw this with Charles in a prior episode). As I’ve already pointed out several replies ago, Lelouch was still alive and actively conversing with Nunnally when Nunnally peered into his memories.

    While I agree with you that the death of the Code recipient seems to be required to activate the Code, the Charles example is not a good one to back that up with. Two of the bits of information we’ve been given about the characteristics of Code owners is that they are immune to geass and they have the Code mark on their body somewhere. But when Lelouch attempted to use his geass on Charles, we did not see either of the telltale sign of a successful geassing, the restructuring of neurons (or something) or the red border around his irises. And since he is wearing a glove over his right hand and does not take it off until after he revives, it cannot be determined if it appeared after his death or before.

    As for Lelouch’s death scene, it was not necessary for that to be his first death. Although the activation of the Code results in the disappearance of the geass power, we had not seen the geass power in his eyes since he used it on Nunnally 2 months prior. So Lelouch having an active Code when talking to Nunnally while dying is well within the realm of possibility.

    Another admittedly low-probability scenario is this: Lelouch died sometime during his tumble down the ramp, and revived immediately (as you’ve asserted is the case for Code owners) before Nunnally touched his hand. He then proceeded to put on a dying act for Nunnally who was too distraught by the severity of his wound and assumption of his death to notice that he was still actually alive and kicking. The jubilant crowd (too frenzied to notice he’s not dead either) then strings up the monster’s “dead” body and parades it down the street, finishing by leaving it run up a flagpole in front of the Britannian palace in Japan. Someone decides a couple of hours later that it’s in bad enough taste to take it down and toss it in a landfill, off a cliff, into the ocean, or maybe even bury it.

    Considering that Lelouch also, did not have a Code sigil marked anywhere on his body at the time of Nunnally peered into his memories, we can conclude that Nunnally seeing into his memories is unrelated to the Code. Additionally, with Nunnally being as close to Lelouch as she was, don’t you think she would’ve noticed a Code on his body?

    That’s a negative proof fallacy and you know it. Most of his body is covered by clothes, his hair, and his silly-looking hat. On top of that, apparently some form of material exists in the Code Geass world that is so skin-like that Sayoko could wear an entire mask of the stuff, even getting kissed, and not have anyone notice it wasn’t her real skin. With that in mind, he could even have his Code mark tattooed right across his face and he could still get away with it. A question for you though… when do we see where the Code mark is on V.V.? I couldn’t find it online and I don’t have the entire series anymore, just a handful from R2.

    having already seen Suzaku and Lelouch in the World of C through his memories and being debriefed by Schneizel previously on the nature and extent of Lelouch’s Geass, Nunnally (remember, she can tell lies from the truth) would’ve been able to tell if Lelouch was truly dead or simply ‘faking’.

    Since I do believe he was dead at that point, there’s nothing to fake. I don’t subscribe to the idea that Code owners immediately revive or heal. I bring up the examples of C.C. not reviving immediately after being killed in the first episode of the first season and V.V. not having his injuries healed in the time before Charles took his Code.

    Additionally (remember, Nunnally saw into his memories), Nunnally was able to see Suzaku and Lelouch’s plan vis a vis that exchange. It doesn’t seem to indicate that Lelouch planned on surviving the Zero Requiem. If he did, at the time that he discussed the plan with Suzaku, Nunnally would’ve seen that in his memories. She also (through the use of memory reading) would’ve been able to tell if Lelouch had received a code.

    During the past memory transfers, the recipient has only seen nothing more than portions and glimpses of the Code owner’s memories. Judging from the memories shown, she saw Suzaku and Lelouch’s discussion of the Zero Requiem in the World of C and again when Lelouch was handing off the Zero outfit to Suzaku. If Lelouch had the Code Suzaku likely didn’t know about it, and it would have been bad if he did since Suzaku’s reason for going along with the plan was getting to kill Lelouch in the end.

    What most people are doing, is assuming he’s alive based on 2 words of text that aren’t directed at any character on-screen. That’s speculation. While speculation is fine, to confuse speculation with “facts” is simply wrong, inaccurate and grossly ignorant. My position and replies, have served to separate “facts” from assumptions. Which is why I keep driving home the point that, they very clearly showed Lelouch dying in Nunnally’s arms. That is indisputable.

    My argument though is based off the solid evidence of the memory transfer. Since there have been no examples of it taking place without a Code, the conclusion must be either that the writers invented some new way to transfer memories in the last couple of minutes of the series or that Lelouch has a Code. Everything else is just speculation on how this might have happened or how certain events fit into this conclusion. The fixation on the wagon scene is where most people screw up the argument, since, as you said, that doesn’t prove anything. But the memory transfer is the key point. With it, one must conclude that Lelouch has a Code. Without it, all other arguments are pointless since the guy got a sword plunged into his chest and most obviously died from it.

    What IS disputable is the meaning behind C.C.’s last line which is open to interpretation. But if you look at it in the context of the episode (hell, if you look at it in the context of the entire series), it seems more likely that she was talking to a friend who has passed on by reflecting on past events overall, rather than talking to someone beside her.

    We have different interpretations of it, but as both of us noted it is an ambiguous line.

    • Random Person ;D
      Posted May 8, 2012 at 5:44 am | Permalink

      To all those who think Lelouch is dead, read this. There is plenty of proof that Lelouch is alive. I will mention them. I believe Lelouch has Charle’s code and C2′s/C.C.’s Geass.

      1. Nunnally saw Lelouch’s memories after he got stabbed. A little weird? This won’t happen normally. Remember how C2/C.C. was feeding Suzaku scare images at Narita? And then Lelouch touched her shoulders and saw some of C.C.’s memories. Since this obviously doesn’t happen with a Geass-user, it has to work only with a Code-holder, I believe Lelouch was in the process of becoming immortal when Nunnally touched his hand, thus seeing SOME of his memories.

      2. Schneizel continues to serve Zero – who is now Suzaku. Remember with Nunnally? Charles used his Geass to make her blind. Then after Charles died, Nunnally realized she could see. So I’m guessing the power of Geass dies when the user dies.

      3. Jeremiah (orange boy) encouraged Suzaku (Zero) to go ahead and kill Lelouch. Remember how loyal Jeremiah was to Lelouch? He wouldn’t be pleased to hear that Lelouch was about to be killed, for he is even willing to sacrifice his own life for Lelouch.

      4. The show is called “Code Geass.” No one has obtained both the Geass AND the Code. And since Lelouch is the main character of the show, I think it’s fair to say he was the only one who obtained both. Since most Geass-users obtain the Geass and then later on the code from one person.

      5. The origami bird right at the end. It is VERY strange if C.C. was keeping an origami bird. Nunnally taught Lelouch how to make an origami bird. So it is VERY likely that Lelouch was keeping the origami bird in memory of his beloved sister, Nunnally. I mean, why would C.C. keep an origami bird? She was never befriended with Nunnally nor had ever learned how to make one. After all, they showed Lelouch dealing with origami birds with Nunnally and someone else who at the moment I cant remember… was it Rolo? IDK. Besides the point anyway.

      6. The question C.C. asks Lelouch at the end. Its no ordinary talk-to-the-dead speech. The creators wanted something dramatic at the end. Thats why C.C. paused a bit after saying “Right..” before she said “…Lelouch?” For the audience to go, “WHAT?!” If the writer intended her to talk to the dead, C.C. would have nonchalantly say say Lelouch’s name, not after a pause for the audience to get ready.

      7. C.C. is happy. Remember – C.C. loves Lelouch. She was surprised she still had those feelings, she said so herself. So if Lelouch was the only one she loved, wouldnt she be sad and not smiling at the end of the episode?

      8. The carriage driver. Why would some random guy let C.C. ride on his carriage? I strongly believe Lelouch was driving the carriage, spending the rest of his immortal life with the woman that loves him.

      9. Instead of naming the second season “season 2″, it was named “R2″. Now we each know that C.C. and V.V. are initials for their original name. And they are pronounced “C2″ and “V2″. Now in Japanese, we all know there is no ‘L’ in the language and ‘R’ is used in placeof it. So Lelouch Lamperouge is actually ‘Rerouch Ramerouge.’ So… Lelouch’s initials would be.. R.R., no? Or should I say… R2? Still, this is kind of unlikely, but worth mentioning.

      Now here are my counters for those stupid “facts” of you people who dont believe.

      1. For those of you who think Nunnally would have seen Lelouch receive the code:
      Nunnally saw only SOME of Lelouch’s memories. Just like Lelouch saw only SOME of C.C.’s memories when he touched her shoulder when she was in “code-mode” back at Narita. I believe Lelouch was in the process of activating his Code as so was in “code-mode”, therefor, Nunnally was able to see SOME memories.

      2. For those of you who want to use Tanaguchi’s testimony of Code Geass FINALLY ending, so Lelouch MUST be dead that no OVAs or more seasons can be made:
      WAKE UP. There are 2 OVAs coming out this July 27th.

      3. For those of you who saw that Birthday Miracle Picture Drama OVA:
      In the end, indeed, it appears as Lelouch is dead. But remember how Lelouch was disappearing in the end? It is much like C.C. appearing on one of the Knightmares. Back where Lelouch accidently tells Euphy to”kill all the Japanese.” So I’m guessing having the Code gives some special powers. Another thing could be that Lelouch had something to do with the minds of his firends and therefor it was like they were all together. But that was just a picture drama anyway.

      4. For those of you who think Nunnally would have seen Lelouch “faking” his death:
      He didnt need to “fake” his death. Why? Because he was really dying! Remember C.C. died in episode 1 and she didnt recover immediately. And Charles as well, after Charles shot himself, he didnt revive immediately. So I believe Lelouch died, and then later on resurrected and C.C. came to get him out of wherever he was (I think he was buried).

      5. For those of you who want to say Lelouch must have the code symbol on his hand:
      What proof do you have that the symbol/sign must appear RIGHT after a code-holder dies? It could appear when the Code-holder resurrects. AND, it may also be that the Code-holder gets the sign immediately after receiving the sign. But now you want to say Nunnally would notice the code then right? Listen, Charles had his sign/symbol on his hand, and C.C. had hers on her forehead. Like someone above, we never even say V.V’s one. Who knows, it could have been on Lelouch’s butt for what it matters! So no one would see it of course.

      And finally, watch these videos:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhyzoq4mxo
      and
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5MxCiA-ltQ

      P.S. I’m a fangirl of CG ;)

  16. Halcyon
    Posted October 3, 2008 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    @Chaos Reaper

    you are indeed a fool and ignorant not only have you been proved wrong but your response to most of them has no explanation you just say it just is or does. I left any hope of argueing with a fool and apparently zentari has to. We’ve pointed everypeice of evidence towards you that proves you wrong and you’ve ignoredit rather than try to listen to reason. Ive lost interest in argueing along time ago so read this as you will and ignore it just like we know you will.

    So basically, you lose? Okay, gotcha.

    @Jay
    Because you’re all arguing your asses off about a TV show. It blows my mind. Go argue about the existence of God or the economy or something.

    I already do that daily at work, bro.

    @Evaric

    While I agree with you that the death of the Code recipient seems to be required to activate the Code, the Charles example is not a good one to back that up with. Two of the bits of information we’ve been given about the characteristics of Code owners is that they are immune to geass and they have the Code mark on their body somewhere. But when Lelouch attempted to use his geass on Charles, we did not see either of the telltale sign of a successful geassing, the restructuring of neurons (or something) or the red border around his irises. And since he is wearing a glove over his right hand and does not take it off until after he revives, it cannot be determined if it appeared after his death or before.

    Irregardless of that, there is no evidence that proves Lelouch receives a Code from either Charles or C.C. That is speculation and wishful thinking.

    As for Lelouch’s death scene, it was not necessary for that to be his first death. Although the activation of the Code results in the disappearance of the geass power, we had not seen the geass power in his eyes since he used it on Nunnally 2 months prior. So Lelouch having an active Code when talking to Nunnally while dying is well within the realm of possibility.

    Except, you would’ve seen a Code Sigil on his body had he already received and activated a Code prior to his death scene. There was no such Code showed on his personage at the time Nunnally touched him.

    Another admittedly low-probability scenario is this: Lelouch died sometime during his tumble down the ramp, and revived immediately (as you’ve asserted is the case for Code owners) before Nunnally touched his hand. He then proceeded to put on a dying act for Nunnally who was too distraught by the severity of his wound and assumption of his death to notice that he was still actually alive and kicking. The jubilant crowd (too frenzied to notice he’s not dead either) then strings up the monster’s “dead” body and parades it down the street, finishing by leaving it run up a flagpole in front of the Britannian palace in Japan. Someone decides a couple of hours later that it’s in bad enough taste to take it down and toss it in a landfill, off a cliff, into the ocean, or maybe even bury it.

    That’s really really grasping at straws. So he died on the way down due to his fall, then died again from his wounds? You can see how implausible that seems.
    Again, as for ‘faking’ his death, Nunnally would’ve been able to tell when she touched him so that rules that out.

    That’s a negative proof fallacy and you know it. Most of his body is covered by clothes, his hair, and his silly-looking hat.

    False. His hat was not on his head when he got stabbed by Suzaku.

    With that in mind, he could even have his Code mark tattooed right across his face and he could still get away with it.

    Again, Nunnally would’ve been able to tell when she looked into his memories and/or touched him.

    A question for you though… when do we see where the Code mark is on V.V.? I couldn’t find it online and I don’t have the entire series anymore, just a handful from R2.

    They never showed his code sigil on his body. Then again, he was the size of a child. It could’ve been too small for Sunrise to bother animating.

    Since I do believe he was dead at that point, there’s nothing to fake. I don’t subscribe to the idea that Code owners immediately revive or heal. I bring up the examples of C.C. not reviving immediately after being killed in the first episode of the first season and V.V. not having his injuries healed in the time before Charles took his Code.

    Well, we’ve seen C.C. immediately revive after being stabbed/shot in the first episode of R2. And we’ve also seen V.V. revive after getting a knife through the forehead in episode 13 or 14. So if there is a timelag with revival it can’t be more than a few minutes, at most. It most certainly does not take hours, days or months for a Code holder to revive from the dead.

    During the past memory transfers, the recipient has only seen nothing more than portions and glimpses of the Code owner’s memories. Judging from the memories shown, she saw Suzaku and Lelouch’s discussion of the Zero Requiem in the World of C and again when Lelouch was handing off the Zero outfit to Suzaku. If Lelouch had the Code Suzaku likely didn’t know about it, and it would have been bad if he did since Suzaku’s reason for going along with the plan was getting to kill Lelouch in the end.

    It’s irrelevant if Suzaku knows whether or not Lelouch had the code. The memories Nunnally was looking into were Lelouch’s, not Suzaku. By seeing Lelouch’s memories she would’ve been able to tell if he received a Code in the World of C or from C.C.

    My argument though is based off the solid evidence of the memory transfer. Since there have been no examples of it taking place without a Code, the conclusion must be either that the writers invented some new way to transfer memories in the last couple of minutes of the series or that Lelouch has a Code. Everything else is just speculation on how this might have happened or how certain events fit into this conclusion. The fixation on the wagon scene is where most people screw up the argument, since, as you said, that doesn’t prove anything. But the memory transfer is the key point. With it, one must conclude that Lelouch has a Code. Without it, all other arguments are pointless since the guy got a sword plunged into his chest and most obviously died from it.

    Haha. Therein lies the rub. The ‘memory transfer’ you speak of occurred while Lelouch was still alive and had no visible Code on his form.

    Additionally, “WHEN NUNNALLY TOUCHED HIM, IT DID NOT TRIGGER THE TYPICAL ANIMATION SEQUENCE FROM WHENEVER C.C INVADED SOMEONE’S MEMORIES OR SOMEONE INVADED HERS”

    I lovelingly borrowed the above from a kind /a/non on 4chan.
    Credit due: 10/03/08(Fri)17:17 No.15233428

    Additionally, whenever someone touched C.C. the only memories that were shown were from the person who was touching C.C., not C.C. herself. The only notable exception was Lelouch and that could be because he had a Geass Contract with C.C. Thus, follows, if Lelouch had a code, touching Lelouch would’ve only shown Nunnally’s memories not Lelouch’s memories, unless Nunnally had a Geass Contract Lelouch.

    We have different interpretations of it, but as both of us noted it is an ambiguous line.

    I can dig it.

  17. akusatou
    Posted October 3, 2008 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    In response to your third comment:
    The only transfer we have seen have existed between the matured Geass User and the Code Carrier. We have no knowledge of the transfer or unification of code carriers. Since you have no evidence to support the transfer of the code between carriers, you can’t assume it cannot be done. It is also entirely possible that C.C. simply told a lie regarding the full requirements of the transfer in order to give Lelouch a basic understanding of the transfer. It is not like the situation at hand was the perfect place to give Lelouch the full details of the transfer. She even told Lelouch that her only wish was to die when that was clearly not the case. Sometimes Occam’s razor makes sense and that the simplest explanation is often the case, however when dealing with entertainment, many times, the simplest explanation is not the case, only because it promotes excitement and the exhilaration of being exposed to something unthinkable.

    I know that a lot of these are more assumptions on my part, but you have to also recognize that this is anime. There are no rules or restrictions that are bound by common sense and the logic and rationale that exists in the real world. These are all created by the author of the series to entertain us with thought provoking scenarios with unrealistic expectations. Every person will interpret what they see to be different in regards to the circumstantial events that surround the entire series.

    I completely understand that if taken at face value, all of the events surrounding the finale of the series points out that Lelouch is in fact dead and is not the driver of the cart. It is when our imaginations and hopeful expectations examine the little tidbits of information that is hidden throughout the series, be it purposefully placed or accidental, we still have a basis from which we derive these alternative conclusions.

  18. evaric
    Posted October 5, 2008 at 12:00 am | Permalink

    @Halcyon:

    Irregardless of that, there is no evidence that proves Lelouch receives a Code from either Charles or C.C. That is speculation and wishful thinking.

    I wouldn’t call it wishful thinking on my part, I want him to be dead. It’s just the building of plausible scenarios.

    Except, you would’ve seen a Code Sigil on his body had he already received and activated a Code prior to his death scene. There was no such Code showed on his personage at the time Nunnally touched him.

    True… had Lelouch been completely naked and bald at the time. He can’t have a Code Sigil because it wasn’t shown on the 10% of his skin that was visible? Come on man, you’ve called people on negative proof fallacies yourself.

    They never showed his code sigil on his body. Then again, he was the size of a child. It could’ve been too small for Sunrise to bother animating.

    Thanks for the info.

    It’s irrelevant if Suzaku knows whether or not Lelouch had the code. The memories Nunnally was looking into were Lelouch’s, not Suzaku. By seeing Lelouch’s memories she would’ve been able to tell if he received a Code in the World of C or from C.C.

    You misunderstand the point I was making. I just added that last sentence about Suzaku likely not knowing about the Code because his reason for going along with the plan was getting to kill Lelouch in the end. If he had known death was not a permanent condition for Lelouch, he might not have been so keen on helping.

    Haha. Therein lies the rub. The ‘memory transfer’ you speak of occurred while Lelouch was still alive and had no visible Code on his form.
    Additionally, “WHEN NUNNALLY TOUCHED HIM, IT DID NOT TRIGGER THE TYPICAL ANIMATION SEQUENCE FROM WHENEVER C.C INVADED SOMEONE’S MEMORIES OR SOMEONE INVADED HERS”
    I lovelingly borrowed the above from a kind /a/non on 4chan.
    Credit due: 10/03/08(Fri)17:17 No.15233428

    As mentioned, he could have died once beforehand for the purpose of activating the Code. The part about no visible Code Sigil was covered earlier. And the absence of the “TYPICAL ANIMATION SEQUENCE” (gotta love people who write in all caps) is pretty weak evidence. We’ve seen Lelouch use his geass on lots of people (mostly peons) throughout the series without going through his geass animation sequence.

    Additionally, whenever someone touched C.C. the only memories that were shown were from the person who was touching C.C., not C.C. herself. The only notable exception was Lelouch and that could be because he had a Geass Contract with C.C. Thus, follows, if Lelouch had a code, touching Lelouch would’ve only shown Nunnally’s memories not Lelouch’s memories, unless Nunnally had a Geass Contract Lelouch.

    This, on the other hand, would be strong evidence. It appears I didn’t remember those sequences as well as I thought I did. I’ll have to recheck to confirm (do you happen to know offhand the specific episodes?), but if it’s true you’ve just made my Code Geass day. Though note that that does not completely prove he didn’t have a Code, because with how little we know about how the Code works there could be some form memory transfer that doesn’t follow the examples of the ones seen so far. But that’s more in the realm of implausible-but-not-impossible speculation, and you seem to have provided enough evidence for me to declare the guy dead and buried. Thanks, and I enjoyed debating this with you. =)

  19. Halcyon
    Posted October 5, 2008 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    @evaric

    This, on the other hand, would be strong evidence. It appears I didn’t remember those sequences as well as I thought I did. I’ll have to recheck to confirm (do you happen to know offhand the specific episodes?), but if it’s true you’ve just made my Code Geass day. Though note that that does not completely prove he didn’t have a Code, because with how little we know about how the Code works there could be some form memory transfer that doesn’t follow the examples of the ones seen so far. But that’s more in the realm of implausible-but-not-impossible speculation, and you seem to have provided enough evidence for me to declare the guy dead and buried. Thanks, and I enjoyed debating this with you. =)

    In episode 11 of R2, C.C. makes contact with Anya. This causes Anya to have a memory spasm and C.C. has flashbacks (of her own memories) from making contact with Anya.

    In this scene, you very clearly see the Code Sigil on C.C.’s forehead react and Anya has a flood of memories (her own and/or Marianne’s).

    With Suzaku, it happened way back in R1, Episode 11. At that time you clearly see C.C.’s Code Sigil glowing when she makes contact with Suzaku and Suzaku has flashbacks of his memories of killing his father.

    In both cases, the people touching the code holders didn’t get access to the code holder’s memories, just their own.

    And the pleasure has been all mine, Evaric. It’s been a real treat debating with someone who can match his text with solid, logical, rational thinking.

    P.S. It’s very common for Lelouch to geass people. It’s not as common for a code holder to come in contact with a normal person via touch.

  20. Grimey
    Posted October 5, 2008 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    Despite the numerous arguments, I’ve seen no sure proof that Lelouch cannot be alive. Indeed, I think it is very probable that Lelouch is alive and well.

    It appears that CC views Lelouch as different from her earlier clients, and seems to accept a relationship. This indicates that she has an interest in preserving his life for a purpose besides the creation of a peaceful world.

    I suspect that Lelouch is the cart driver. Though we cannot know this directly, it is possible. More evidence could be gleaned if we knew whether the Geass sigil is still on CC’s forehead. If my theory that the cart driver is Lelouch can be valid, she must not have the sigil.

    In the final scene, the parts in her hair would reveal some portion of the sigil if it was there. I am incorrect in this assumption?

    I am not trying to discredit any others’ theories, but am trying to provide my own.

  21. Iris
    Posted October 13, 2008 at 1:41 am | Permalink

    I hated SUNRISE SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!
    …until after I analysed their clues etc eg Orange-kun’s non-distressed attitude when “Zero” stepped over him? He is, afterall, a protector of the royal family ie Lelouch, Nunnally and Marianne BUT when he failed to stop “Zero” Orangekun even smiled a tad :S
    strange huh?

    Well Sunrise better be making a R3 since the release of R2′s ending [which made ppl h8 them grr]

    Also, I dont dismiss the idea of Lulu passing on his Geass to Suzaku coz afterall he’s in the position to look after Nunnally BUT when CC tilts her head to say “ne Lelouch” the theory becomes less plausible

    And it seems to be a trend in R2 that ppl who SHOULD and supposedly “died” revives :o so if they can do that to all the other characters Lelouch CANNOT be killed off by a single stab in the heart/diaphragm

    they better make a movie too!! but these typpa movies are usually gay ><

  22. Bankai
    Posted October 15, 2008 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

    So are they gonna make a season 3 or no ?
    if they dont, F U Sunrise, i was almost about to cry at the ending
    this was the only anime that i really liked, and had some brain to it – except for some of the idiots take for example Ougi
    btw when the hell did the writer say that that was the ending of Code Geass ?

  23. dymitr
    Posted October 17, 2008 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    The writer of this blog is not objective, he’s obviously Gundam-crazy.
    Therefore I would like you to refrain from badmouthing code geass with gundam-related arguments. I agree with you that Gundam-00 is awesome, but code geass R2 takes the cake( Knighmares before Gundams) .

  24. Sidereal
    Posted October 25, 2008 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    On the part about people being shown bleeding to death.

    Mao was shot by a whole police squadron and shown bleeding to death, and well…
    we all know what happens the very next episode.

  25. ur gonna hate me gal
    Posted November 15, 2008 at 2:08 am | Permalink

    Didn’t bother reading the comments- they got to long…

    Anyway, I’m about to cause the biggest wank ever.

    Ready? Okay. Lelouch is dead. By absolute rule of canon. Here’s why:
    1. Shitsu is the only one with a code (left).
    2. If you take someone’s code, they die(reference in episodes 21 and 22 [I think. Too lazy to check]).
    3. Shitsu isn’t dead.
    4. Your geass powers go away when you receive the code- hence why no one is falling in love with Shitsu.
    5. That sword…um…well, it caused a big enough wound that NO ONE would have survived it.
    6. Black hair is very common.
    7. No, really. It is. The animators just like messing with your head.

  26. ur gonna hate me gal
    Posted November 16, 2008 at 3:33 am | Permalink

    One thing to add, I’ve been reading some of the comments, and Chaotic Reaper, Marianne was dead. Her spirit existed, but her body did not. For all we know, Lelouch’s spirit still exists. Geass or not. The world of C could have even been Code Geass’ world of the dead.

    Also, Shitsu understood his reasons, that’s the look you’re confusing for happiness.

    As for Nunally, ‘Shitsu’ made some good points.

  27. Pouting
    Posted November 16, 2008 at 3:57 am | Permalink

    No one asked what CC’s name was… and we never found out… Have you no thought for anything but, “Lulu is ALIVE! No, he’s NOT! Is too! Is not!”

    AND Jeremiah Gottwald. He becomes the awesomest ever, lives up to Lulu’s ‘passing remark that will be overanalyzed’, and even earns brownie points for releasing Charles’ geass.

    Typical Lulu fans, never see past the main’s awesomeness…

    Don’t think it’s a flame,
    Pouting

  28. stranger
    Posted November 26, 2008 at 5:42 am | Permalink

    okay can anyone tell me what was so good about lelouchs plan?

    they want to tell us, that if the alliances wouldve succeeded over the britanians, the britatians wouldve continued war and so on, but if lelouch makes himself the enemy to the world and gets killed, all people would be satified and concentrate on peace.
    seriously, i dont like sick philosphy. i also got kinda brain washed from it.

    how about just trying to gain peace in a reasonable way. i dont understand why the makers had to spoil this anime in every way they could. well surely it isnt suprising since its a drama.

  29. Posted November 26, 2008 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    Jeez, I thought this argument had died in the minds of most sane people. Here’s an update that will probably not settle it once and for all:

    It appears the director/creator has come out with a Word of God statement saying that Lelouche really died. Which sucks, because it goes to show you how much he really cares about the fanbase. If you read the TVTropes article, we do have the option of ignoring him.

    Or we could interpret that as saying Lelouche did die, but came back with the Code, as has already been hypothesized. But that’d be stretching it, and it would make the director seem like less of a dick than he is.

    Positive evidence says Lelouche is still alive. The director says he died. And thus Code Geass’ legacy is effing screwed.

  30. stranger
    Posted November 26, 2008 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    did he say that lelouch died as answer to the differences of opionion or did he just summarise the ending?

    i at least have no problem if he died. i just dont like the way he did. btw he deserved to die anyway, because he had killed toudos people. i dont mean those who took hostages, because he had to do it, but the ones after them with a bomb blast.

    BIG THANKS to the blogger, you really have explained much which was unclear to me. for example why lelouch was lying to suzaku in the meeting and why he told kallen, that he just used her when the black knights were going to kill him.
    and you pointed really good stuff out, like things about illogical things and about ougi, i just couldnt stop laughing

  31. BRANDON
    Posted December 21, 2008 at 12:26 am | Permalink

    well overall a good series but eventualy it spun out of control and became harder to keep up with than soultaker, im glad its over but it was good while it lasted but i definitly would not have wanted the series to be as long as naruto or bleach it would have been way to insain! ps. ironic end of episod elike 21 were pink hair euphy dies lulu says for creation there must be destruction no matter the cost.

  32. neveronlyalways
    Posted January 11, 2009 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

    We’ll I’m most likely point out that Lelouch must be alive.
    They saw that you can pass Codes when you beat and or kill an immortal. Technically, Lelouch killed his father in the episode where Marianne, (Please forgive me if I spell these names wrong) came back. His geass came in his other eye as well, and he was still sane…(mostly >.>). The code is most likely on his neck where his father gripped him as he faded away.
    As seen in other episodes, it was known that Lelouch, Suzaku, and random people could see her memories when they touched her, same goes for when Nunally grabbed his hand. Some people say that Nunally can, “see into people’s hearts by holding their hands.” If that were true, then she would’ve known that Lelouch was Zero a long time ago.
    As for the scene where C.C. was crying, people claim that he MUST be dead for that. But from C.C.’s point of view, immortality is a bad thing.
    And for the scene where Lelouch shoot’s his father nand see’s him dead, the immortality does not start unless you are killed. Therefore, once Lelouch shot him, he became an immortal.
    Lelouch became an immortal when Suzaku …stabbed?(right word?) him.
    As for the ending theme where C.C. is in the cart, she’s speaking to Lelouch. If you look closely at the cart driver, you can see that he has black hair, and who honestly covers up THAT MUCH?
    So, from my POV, Lelouch must be alive.
    Tell me if I missed anything?

  33. Kris
    Posted February 22, 2009 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    Ambiguity is fine. Myself really like it. There are a lot of people yelling whether or not Lelouch is dead – we will probably never know. I would think he is. He got stabbed in the heart. It is possible that he was immortal (like CC or C2) at the time but they never discuss that. I like to tell myself that he is dead because I feel that’s a fitting way for him to die. He destroyed that world and it is now being rebuilt. It is now a kind world were Nunnally can live happily. She said all she wanted was to be with Lelouch but from the scenes that follow I think she has moved on. We will never know and it is probably meant to be that way. Ambiguous. Personally I like it this way. And like most anime, I like it for that reason.

    Loved the show.

  34. SDS
    Posted March 6, 2009 at 1:11 am | Permalink

    Although A LOT of people accuse R2 of not doing the 1st season justice in terms of story, characterization and/or mecha battles, I don’t believe that’s an accurate statement. Whilst the 1st season can be reviewed on its own, R2 cannot. However I admit, on first viewing R2 was definitely incoherent and lost its 1st season charms. Yet R2 offers, I would argue, fittingly extends season 1 to a somewhat fulfilling end.

    Many aspects of R2 depended on audience appreciation of season 1. R2 was a more radical development of season 1 groundwork thus it was impossible for it to remain Japan-centric given the events already occurred, meaning many of its plot holes were borne from the 1st season. To criticize R2 alone is probably an inaccurate attempt to compare a new series (season 1) with one that has been firmly introduced with many plots unsolved (R2). Viewers shouldn’t view R2 separately but a continuation. If you didn’t like R2, its because season 1 initiated plot-points that ultimately founded the ambiguities in R2.

    Story: I agree that it’s a bit convoluted, especially with the (unnecessary?) philosophical meandering. Part of the problem here was too many philosophical themes were hinted (life/death, will, time, peace, means/ends dilemma etc) but given truncated, poor plot tie-in explanations. It comes off as rather pretentious. However I would not have liked to see this series become overly philosophized so I think it was appropriate to tinker with this aspect and not have every character overtly ‘realize’ the consequences. The philosophical undertones are best to be interpreted by each viewer.

    The crux of the story was well constructed and executed barring a notable pitfall – whilst the 1st season was comprehensible after one viewing, most the episodes in R2 (especially towards the later half) required two+ viewings to really grasp aspects of the story and characterization. This was probably due to the Geass revelation which opened a can of worms for the story/plot, and abrupt story-telling.

    Characters: Although many have criticized the seeming ‘sidelining’ of major characters and introduction of too many new characters, this isn’t exactly a flaw of R2 but a a story direction the creators saw fitting for Code Geass. Given the size of the events occurring in R2, it would be odd to have a small cliche of characters. There is emphasis on ‘collectives’ versus ‘human will’ (a underlying tone of misunderstanding versus ramifications versus unification/forgiveness) and that these are themes significant to ALL people and not just those of importance (leaders, royalty) thus the story had to show more characters being affected, their reactions and own interpretations. I think the series competently delivered each character’s outlook and predisposition. A fixation on 1st season characters and their development would take the story on a different angle. The ‘global effect’ of Lelouch’s actions and the story’s undertones in a way necessitated ‘more’ characters. Less focus on individuals may also be a premise to convey the de-individualising effects Charles, Schneizel and Lelouch was causing. But this interpretation is probably non-intentional by CG creators. I could probably give a fitting description for how each ‘major 1st season’ character has developed in R2, but those descriptions are at best extrapolations from the limiting nature of R2′s plot. Another aspect audience may not easily grasp is Lelouch’s complex character. It is highly dubious his initial motivation was ‘just’ to ‘protect’ Nunnally or find out who killed his mother since throughout the series Lelouch hardly reminisced of the ‘happy’ times with Marianne. Inciting a war is perhaps not the most ideal method to ‘protect.’. Its more probable Lelouch had mixed motives; he despised Marianne’s killer for ruining his life, and to an extent Nunnally’s life; and because Lelouch was angered by a system that prizes Darwinism (Britannia endorses survival of the fittest which normally connotes physical prowess) since he lacks those overtly physical qualities. Overall Lelouch is quite complex and the series absolutely did not convey his character to a level of clarity to allow the audience to really understand how he is able to change throughout the series, and where/when his sense of ‘justice/righteousness’ was attained to explain his final sacrifice.

    Mecha: If you seriously watched CG in anticipation of glorified mecha battles against a post-modernist or post-apocalyptic backdrop then say no more. For you have been greatly misled. Frankly, if anything is true about CG, it’s that people have liked it because Lelouch can still hand your ass to you on a plate without piloting a Gundam. Woops, I meant Knightmare. kNightmare? Seriously…

    Personally I have enjoyed Code Geass, even though R2 sensationalized things a little, but that surely should have been expected. The series as a whole worked well despite calls for more dead characters which I don’t understand. True some characters ‘should be dead’ in terms of the realistic improbability of surviving some of the stunts they endure, but the story didn’t require anymore characters to die (exception: Schneizel). Besides since the protagonist ‘dies’ its probably safe to say you want more living minor characters just to help round out the ending. Anymore deaths would be attributed to Lelouch’s deception, created misunderstandings and his eventual plan, thus you would be adding to Lelouch’s sins. The final effect is far better this way so Lelouch is largely the bearer of the pain caused.

    These are my thoughts, and as of this date and from my projections, Code Geass will definitely surpass the mediocre effort that is Gundam 00.

  35. sumo
    Posted March 11, 2009 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Speculation of Lelouch’s survival has certainly run rampant in various blogs I’ve encountered. The only thing I can think of that could possibly support his survival is the sudden memory flashback that Nunnally experienced when she touched Lelouch’s hand. It reminds me of a similar incident between C2 and Suzaku during the first season episodes. So far, no Geass-possessing character has demonstrated this particular event. From what is known about C2 is that she’s immortal. Well, if you put one and one together, you can further surmise that Lelouch has also become immortal. But then this raises additional questions: How and when did he become immortal? He certainly didn’t obtain immortality from Emperor Charles–otherwise, Lelouch would not have been able to use his Geass during his proclamation as the 99th Emperor.

    I really enjoyed this anime series and would look forward to a follow-up episode or season. However, I would also understand why the creator might not want to. Another season might dilute its emotional momentum. R2 did, after all, end at a high note.

  36. SPM
    Posted March 18, 2009 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    I agree with your ending assessment. I HATE “OPEN TO INTERPRETATION” ENDINGS!!!! (a la Soprano’s) It’s the worst thing ever unless you plan on doing a sequel. Jesus, just spell it out for me!

    I don’t care if LL is dead or alive, just let me know which one and clear up some other questions not answered….like Did CC finally rid herself of the code? If not, that sucks for her.

    Rumor has it that the director said “Lelouch is dead”. I’m fine with that, but don’t just leave it at that. that statement is also “ambiguous”. the open ending is an insult to fans, give us closure.

    F@K Ledouch and Sunrise! drop dead!

  37. taz452
    Posted April 2, 2009 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    Lelouch is alive if you don’t think he check the pic of C.C after the nun death
    and lelouch after his father death that is lelouch is the driver of the wagon
    with C.C at end

    lelouch after his father death
    http://randomc.animeblogger.net:8000/image/CODE%20GEASS/CODE%20GEASS%20R2%20-%2021%20-%20Large%2030.jpg

    C.C after the nun death
    http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/CODE%20GEASS/CODE%20GEASS%20R2%20-%2015%20-%20Large%2027.jpg

    lelouch have the code form his father and him and C.C can live
    with each for ever a happy end what the way i like it

  38. cerebus23
    Posted April 4, 2009 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

    ya know i just watched the entire 2nd season in a maraton session.

    and did not like 100 posts up or something people claim that one could just obtain the code, by reaching a certain level of geass mastery? who is to say that he did not obtain that level of mastery? he conqueored the whole world, defeated charles and his mother using geass to stop them. and to top all that he used geass and never lost his soul like everyone else seemed to do while having it even C.C. almost everyone else went insane with power or desire or abused their power in one way or another, lelouch acted mad at times to throw people off but almost every action he took was true to his purpose of making a better world for his sister and ridding the world of tyrrany and dictorships.

    i kinda took it when he received the mark in his other eye, during the meeting wirth charles and his mother, that he had in fact reached a new mastery of his geass or heck it could be that was his code mark, but surely that second geass symbol that suddenly appeared meant something that has not been really discussed.

    where C.C or C2 or whatever you want to call her overused her geass until she began to understand that forced love is not real love and became so disillusioned with life she wanted to die. V2 was just an arrogant selfish lying bastage it seems from the very start killing lulus mother in some selfish bid to keep his brother true to him and got no better with age. charles got so bored with the real world all he could think about was destroying the world and stopping or reversing time and ending the life of “gods”. the last guy C2 tried to make a contract with turned into a stalker psychopath. rolo was not even “human” and was so obsessed with lulu that he killed one woman he loved and was going to kill his sister so he had no competition. and so on most of the geass players in the story had very flawed characters or reasons for being.

    and the end scene the driver’s got a towel, scarf, something over his head a huge floppy hat so you really can not make out the face, plus his build was very lulu like. which means one of 2 things that the show wanted to keep the option open and just made him all covered up like that. or it was lelouch, who’s face would be recognized all over the world being that he was the most hated dictator of the entire world, so he would have to be hidden while traveling.

    and C2s inflection, when she said “right lalouch” sure seemed like she was talking to the driver of the cart, and if her statement was not about their happiness hard to see why she would be musing about his or her solo happiness to herself outloud with some stranger driving the cart, nevermind that she loved him and he loved her. so kinda hard to see how she could be so “in love” cheerful if he was in fact dead.

    she had live 400 years or something i think it was in season 1 they mentioned, i might be wrong but that number pops to mind, or maybe i seen too many episodes of highlander. but she lived a long time in any case, and never met anyone that she could truely love, finally lets her heart thaw and falls for lalouch and then lets him kill himself, she of anyone knew his full plan from beginning to end and turned absolutely giddy, when he pushed kallen away to protect her, he obviously had feelings for her, and who knows if shirley had lived, but CC won he was the only woman left in his life, the one woman he trusted completely and one he cared a great deal about. tho seeing her shoot evil sideways glances or interrupting uncomfortable moments between lulu and other girls was always funny or her light jabs at all the zero fangirls to him.

    so for my money he is alive, maybe its just the romantic in me tho :P.

  39. IMPORTANT UPDATE FROM SUNRISE
    Posted April 23, 2009 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    Yes, its true, This morning, at the Tokyo Anime Convention with bandai and other major corporate sponsers, Sunrise confirmed two beliefs. They said that “take a closer look at the hay driver. notice the hair, and the collar? It looks like lelouch.” That is a translation, however, despite being a translation, it is still completely accurate. Lelouch survived, and in the Next season, they will be elaborating on it. The other belief is that a new season, R3 will be coming out. According to Megami magazine, Sunrise Code Geass team hinted a possible new anime of “Code Geass – Hangyaku no Lelouch” in the interview.

    Sunrise Code Geass Team said:
    “Even though Lelouch died(?), Geass lives on.” (Highlight to see Code Geass ending spoiler)
    We’ve already put an end to the series but we’re hoping for making something more. In the near future, we may be able to announce something new.
    Leaked by the newly formed AnimeJapan magazine group, thousands of people that have found out, are hyped for the new season. The series are said to come out sometime next year. For all those who have loved LeLouche and Zero, this is for your sake. Do not give up hope, he lives on, in both the story and our hearts. I hope this news has brought some comfort to those who believe that Llouch is alive.

    All Hail Lelouch

  40. azul120
    Posted May 5, 2009 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    Crusader, are you suggesting that Cornelia didn’t want to do what she did in her position in Britannia? She snapped at Euphie when the latter knighted Suzaku as part of her challenge to Britannia’s discrimination against Numbers. And judging from the hotel hijacking incident, she had seemingly no consideration for hostage situations. (She only cared because Euphie was in that building.)

    Say what you will about Lelouch, but to an extent he had always been fighting against Britannian tyranny, and in the end, atoned for his sins. If he deserved to die, then so did Cornelia.

  41. IZZY!!!!
    Posted May 7, 2009 at 5:18 am | Permalink

    I totally loved this whole series, and the fact that they had the main character die at the end was unexpected. i cried the first time i saw it, honestly. lol ima wimp. what i would like to know is what the song is that is at the ending. no, not the ending theme. the song that plays right when nunally starts wailing over her brother’s death and ends when C.C. comes in.
    if anyone knows please tell me, i like the song.

  42. asaboy
    Posted June 2, 2009 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    …i hope there part 3…

  43. killua
    Posted June 5, 2009 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    yeah me too… i hope that there have a part 3….. because it is boring if lelouch die

  44. Azrael
    Posted June 12, 2009 at 2:05 am | Permalink

    As for the allusions to King Arthur, the only ones I could piece together are these.

    1. King Arthur became king(of course), Lelouch became Emperor, both of which are the highest seats of power.

    2.This one seems really flip-flopped, but stay with me now. In the Original tale, Arthur’s killer, Mordred, delivered a fatal cleace to Arthur’s head, he achieved this when Arthur thrusted him with his spear. All of Arthur’s actions being that which is just. The Knightmare Mordred’s head was the only thing critically damaged, and Lelouch was impaled by what he said was “The Sword of Justice”. It got flip-flopped. Lelouch’s head should’ve exploded out of sheer amazement. And Anya should’ve been fucked up by Orangeboys “Blade of I-should’ve-died-earlier-in-the-series-but-I’m-still-here-for-no-apparent-reason”. Geez, if rolo was here he’d of offed them all off without hesistation. And that’s the only good thing about that guy. Nothing else. I’m serious.

    The “Merlin” Knightmare Frame will be introduced in the next series, seeing how Lelouch isn’t really dead, and decieved everyone once again. It’s main armament is a cannon that make the radar blip hundreds of “LOST” icons, whether or not it actually killed anything is unknown, because people are too lazy to look outside of the cockpit to confirm it, has the ability to recycle past characters, because we all know Nunally got boomed in that Fleija blast(I mean, come on, even Nunally’s advisor doesn’t show up anymore, yea that bitch, with the glasses), and is piloted by the cat, Arthur, because Arthur the Cat got Charle’s code and will now take the world by surprise with a grandiose and drawn-out plan like Lelouch ordered him to. Hey its not rape if you yell surprise.

  45. Horanax
    Posted June 24, 2009 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    I have to say this cause I see a lot of people who agree with me that Lelouch is alive and driving the cab but no real reasoning, at least out of the posts I have read.

    First of all I believe he is alive because I believe that he has taken on the role of an immortal from CC. The reasons for this I will state later first I am going to state why I say this is possible for those that have forgotten. Lelouch’s father the Emperor of Britania took by desire the power of immortality from VV, upon doing so he seemingly lost the power of Geass but gained immortality. This is consistant with when CC gained the power immortality she lost her Geass of forced love. Lelouch had already reached a state of completed Geass where both eyes became active when he used his Geass to convince the subconcious of humanity to refuse his father’s plan. This so far just means that there is the possibility not proof that Lelouch is an immortal.

    My reasoning for him being an immortal is that I believe he did two things while dying that are only possible by the immortals who control Geass. The first were his parting words to Suzaku. I believe that they can be taken two ways, parting words to a friend who had to kill his own friend. Or how I believe they were given as terms of a contract, I believe that they were the formation of a contract between Lelouch and Suzaku where Lelouch gave him a Geass. The second event during his death was when Nunnaly touched his hand. She sees images of Lelouch and Suzaku planning this end to war. This could be the producers trying to remind the viewer what has happened in the past but any viewer that didn’t remember what he was doing is blind anyway. I believe this was use of the power that CC had where she could through touch view or allow to be viewed the memories of those in contact, similar to the event in the early part of the series when she stalled Suzaku then Lelouch touched her and saw her memories.

    This isn’t an open and shut case but I choose to believe based on that information that Lelouch is alive and well. Doesn’t mean that I wish to see them continue it cause the series had a good ending, but just my views on his condition at the end.

  46. Myrvastion
    Posted July 3, 2009 at 11:05 pm | Permalink

    Now I know no one’s ever going to care what I say, but what I personally believe is that Lelouch is the cart driver. I think this because it is out of place and there is no reason to hide his face unless a. he is Lelouch and there fore needs to hide his face for obvious reasons or b. sunrise is simply trying to confuse us.

    Although conspicuous, the cart drivers hidden face means very little, yet the origami crane means quite a bit more. The crane is merely a keepsake of Lelouch’s and there is absolutely no reason for C.C to be carrying it around.

    Why is C.C happy about all of this?
    If Lelouch is dead, then this is a royal pain in the ass for her. She would still be immortal and as lonely as ever directly contradicting her final lines. This means that she is either mortal, or Lelouch is with her. Her being mortal would require that Lelouch takes her code, and is therefore immortal himself; and then if he is with her, that means he could have a. taken her code, made her mortal and come with her; or b. somehow obtained the only other code which is Charles’.

    When referring to Lelouch at the very end, C.C tilts her head back to the sky. Now either she’s gone nuts and is talking out loud to a dead guy and considered crazy by that guy driving the cart or that guy is Lelouch, and she’s not crazy because she’s talking right to him. One reason she might have looked up at the sky is because where else are ya gonna look in that position as you can’t look at the driver one because you’re above him and two it’s crazy hard to look back when you’re lying down like that.

    I’ve read here that the revival of the immortals is instantaneous.
    That is ridiculous. If that were so, then C.C would have gotten right back up when she got shot in the forehead in the very first episode, but she didn’t; in fact, she stayed there for quite a while it would seem as Lelouch had enough time to hijack Viletta’s Knightmare and then for Viletta to go after it.

    Again I’ve read something else here that when we see people lying in a pool of their own blood that means they are dead. Truly dead. Just because Lelouch is lying in a pool of his own blood, doesn’t mean he’s dead. Back to the first episode: C.C was lying in a rather large pool of her blood, yet she is pretty much the last frame before the end. A pool of blood is nothing.

    Then after all of this, Orange smiled and ordered a hasty retreat. Why would he do that? Another thing, why would he tell them to stop firing, charge Zero as if to attack and then to let Zero pass him so easily, and then even to smile and think “Go, masked knight”?
    He would have had to know about Lelouch’s immortality because otherwise he would never have ordered them to stop firing, and even if he did, he wouldn’t have let Zero pass like that, and then to think go, masked knight, he would be betraying his loyalty to Lelouch and the royal family. Something about Jeremiah is that he is 50% man 50% machine and 200% f****** loyalty. There is no way he would have ever let him go without a challenge unless he knew Lelouch’s plan and that he wouldn’t truly be harmed. And then on his farm, he’s too happy… he’s just to happy to not know that Lelouch is alive and well wandering the world. Then there’s how Lelouch got away before we woke back up, which will happen eventually, although we don’t know when, but it could have been at any moment. That’s why I think Jeremiah ordered a retreat when they could have easily taken them on; to hide Lelouch for when he wakes back up and to help him recover.

    When Lelouch was speaking to Suzaku, it did sound strangely familiar to what C.C said to Lelouch when she was making their contract. This is no evidence though. What is evidence is what happens when Nunnaly grabs Lelouch’s hand. She sees his memories of making the plan with Suzaku. She realizes the truth, and starts balling for Lelouch. The only one seen with this sort of power is C.C, who is immortal with a code. No, Nunnaly’s lie detector hand can’t read minds. I agree with something before about how she most likely can tell if they’re lying just because she’s blind, and blind people’s other senses are heightened with this disability and that just finalizes the fact that people can tell when other people are lying by their pulse. Another thing I’ve read is that she didn’t go into shock. Well who cares, when Lelouch touched C.C while she was slowing down Suzaku, she was making it where the memories obtained would shock you, not because you saw them in the first place but because they were horrible memories that would scar those who have not already witnessed it. All this combined just proves that somehow Lelouch has received a code in order to have the ability to transfer memories.
    Something I’ve read is that Nunnally is crying because she knows that her brother is dying, but what’s the difference between dying and never even seeing again. To her, he is dead.

    C.C crying at the altar could either be that she is crying about the fact that he is about to die and her wish will never be fulfilled or she is crying about the fact that he will have to live forever in her hell of immortality. It doesn’t matter if he lives or dies, she’s gonna cry.

    How he got the code:
    1. He got it from C.C:
    C.C could have given Lelouch her code, which would fulfill the contract, and remove his geass. This would also give her mortality, allowing her to die. Please understand that her giving her code to him does not kill her, but allows her to die. This is shown because V.V was mortally wounded before he lost his code and the nun went insane and committed suicide. Going out on a limb here though: if by sealing her code away, she became her old slave girl self, would not losing her code be the same thing as sealing it away, thus doing that would again revert her back to her old slave girl self, making her final monologue impossible? If that’s true, then that rules out the possibility of her giving her code to Lelouch.

    2. Lelouch obtained Charles’ code:
    Charles is still Lelouch’s father, and it was my impression that he did feel something for his son. Still being turned into pink glitter could have pissed him off. But either mad or being compassionate he could have given Lelouch his code. We don’t know if he can do this or not, all we do know is that someone must have achieved a complete mastery of his geass, and that the recipient must die for the code to activate. Lelouch may have taken Charles’ code as well, which could be against his character but is still within the realm of possibility, but he may have already had his plan of self-sacrifice planned out this far ahead therefore giving him motive to take the code which would give him the chance to fulfill both C.C’s wish and his plan of saving the world from hate. On the code being forced on him: it is already known that most people in this world view immortality as a curse and Charles may be using this as a punishment for destroying him. Again this is merely speculation, and quite a bit of what I said is only speculation, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not probably right.

    Now about you people saying that it’s no good unless he actually dies: BS
    It doesn’t matters if he actually dies and stays dead just as long as the world thinks he’s dead, then his goal is achieved. It may not be what you think he deserves, but if he needn’t be dead, then he needn’t be dead.

    It has been released somewhere in the dvd pack or something a list of those who died. The last on that list would be Lelouch vi Brittania 99th emperor of Britannia. True, he did DIE, but that doesn’t mean he is DEAD. To activate the code, one must first die; so yes, Lelouch died but he came back just as Charles, V.V, and C.C did. The whole part where you must first die for the code to activate would also explain how no one would have noticed his code on his body as it would not have appeared until after he has died.

    R2… what does it mean. It’s in the title so it must be important, but there is somewhere I’ve heard something like that before. Oh yeah, C2 and V2. Strange coincidence isn’t it? In English, we have our L for Lelouch Lamperouge, but when using our alphabet, the Japanese don’t, they simply have an R. and his given name in their language is Rurushu. Without ‘L’ Lelouch’s initials are R.R. That’s a witch’s name now isn’t it? It’s also in the title of the series: R2 = R.R. = L.L. = Lelouch Lamperouge, so through syllogism: R2 = Lelouch.

    Another thing about the title is this:
    Code Geass
    If Lelouch has taken Charles’ code, then that means that he still has his geass because it doesn’t cancel out the code. The reason the others don’t have their code is because their geass and code both came from the same person. When C.C. got her code, the nun didn’t have her’s anymore thereby cancelling her contract with C.C. And when Charles got his, the exact same thing happened. But Lelouch’s contract with C.C. would still be active if he got his code from Charles and this would enable him to reach “Code Geass” unlike any before him.
    Of course, I don’t have enough examples to say that this is a concrete fact, but I can say that the pieces fall into place a little to nicely for me to overlook this.

    There we are, why I believe Lelouch is alive and well, and hopefully I have persuaded some of you to believe that he is alive too; as if the guys that were here weren’t convincing enough. Anyways, thanks for reading this far, and listening to what I have to say.

    ALL HAIL LELOUCH!

    • me
      Posted March 16, 2010 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

      a little late i know but myrvsomthing
      you missed out the point that CC cries tears for lelouch before he is killed by suzaku and says this is the price you get for casting the geass on other people. for one thing CC doesn’t seem the type to cry for nothing
      and another orange only let suzaku past because he found out the truth of what happened concerning with him taking the geass off anya and learning what lelouch did to his mother

      • Myrvastion
        Posted May 13, 2010 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

        I don’t really remember what you’re talking about with Orange, so you may be right. I do think that CC would cry if he did become immortal though. Her wish was to die… her immortality is a terrible curse to her. It’s completely plausible that she would cry for him becoming immortal, seeing as this is the one fate that strikes closest to home for her.
        Thanks for commenting on my hideously long comment though = )
        I was really fired up and wanted to throw all the theories together in one place and try to convince some morons that he’s alive.

  47. Rev
    Posted February 2, 2011 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    Zero Requiem- Since Leouch Lamperouge is Zero we can conclude that the one who the requiem will be for is him, since in the final episode it was Leouch Lamerouge aka Zero who was killed by his friend Suzaku who with his ideologies towards Justice makes the perfect candidate to take up the role of Zero who is the embodiment of Justice in this series. R2 Requiem for 2- Z – Zero and given that it was explained before that R.R are the correct initials in the Japanese language it doesn’t seem to be that big of a stretch for me…

    On to CC or C2 talking to Leouch, it was explained to me at least that she with the immortality and power of the code or knowledge to speak to the collective conscience because after all she is the keeper of this knowledge in the end, so is it hard to imagine that she is conversing with Leouch through though alone. I personally believe in universal balance and though that this series conveyed its importance in life quite brilliantly, most philosophers who argue that happiness is what all humanity strives to achieve, I would not argue that I would just add happiness through balance in one’s own life.

    • Rev
      Posted February 3, 2011 at 12:11 am | Permalink

      What people fail to see is that the Code allows for a person’s conscience to be transferred from one body to another or from the collective, all that would need be done is for CC to take Leouch’es body anyway and put his conscience back in him after everything had calmed down. Both endings work, its up to what you personally believe.

      • Anurok
        Posted March 31, 2011 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

        Did anyone mention CC’s entire dialogue at the end? Its not just “Right, Lelouche?”

        Its “The power of gives will ISOLATE YOU. But thats not ENTIRELY TRUE.”

        So shes not alone anymore. She was not happy when she first met Lulu. She just wanted death and results. After meeting him and falling in love with him she wanted him to live. Maybe her prayers in the church were answered by the World of C?

        Orange-Kun, who is badass, would NOT have let Lulu die for his wishes. He obviously knew about the plan since he let Suzaku pass. If he knew Lulu would live then he would be okay with this show. After all the Orange went through to protect him and Marianne you all really think that he would just let Lulu die? No way, not a chance.

        CC was constantly talking to herself. There was one episode where she was on Zeros quarters by herself talking to someone about liking Lulu. It must have been Marianne. This could mean that CC can directly talk to people in the World of C which means that Lulu did die and is in the world of C or that he survived due to her wish and is driving the cart.

        Did anyone else think that maybe CC’s REAL wish was to have REAL love? She says (I think episode 23) that she has never met anyone like Lulu before. Maybe it means that someone has fallen in love with her without her need for Geass. That could have been her wish. To spend her life with someone. That someone could not die or the contract would not be granted.

        Could that Origami crane on the cart been her 1000th crane?

  48. Ardi
    Posted September 10, 2011 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    Okey i just watched the Code geass series for the 6 time, and i noticed something in Episode 20 (R2) at 20:30 Anya (Marianne) says: “Should i save him?” and then she says a name! it sounds like Kallen.

    and to the guys over me, C.C wish was not to die, it was to be Loved! the hint you get is when Lulu travels to the past and C.C tells him that she used her geass power to make everyone love her. (alteast thats what i think, it sounds reliable)

    And about R3. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/code_geass_shikkoku_no_renya/
    The story begins when Renya encounters a mysterious, perpetually young witch named “Reifū C.C.”

    Reifū?

  49. Alan
    Posted November 14, 2011 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    Was the one who drove the cart Lelouch? I feel like it was him or something

  50. kartik
    Posted March 18, 2012 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    the greatest animated series i have ever seen. the end is emotional

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