Long ago in the Naruto manga, we heard of how Orochimaru said that even Itachi was too strong for him. There was an ominous panel which showed a partially decaying forearm complete with Akatsuki ring on the the finger. At that point many fans guessed that Orochimaru wanted to take over Itachi’s body and fought with Itachi. But of course we know Orochimaru lost and had his arm chopped off as well. So we all wondered when would we ever get to see this ‘epic’ battle being shown in a flashback and finally Kishimoto answers us in chapter 345! Was it truly an epic flashback like we expected?
The answer is a resounding NO. Orochimaru gets pwned by Itachi so easily that it’s not even a joke. It’s not even a chapter-long fight, it’s just 2 bloody pages! The sannin genius Orochimaru loses in probably what is the fastest fight ever in Naruto, maybe except for the Tenten vs Temari fight in the Chuunin Exams.
I was expecting some crazy battle where Orochimaru busts out his S or A ranked jutsus and Itachi uses his Sharingan to counter them and maybe use his own jutsus. A chapter would have sufficed since I expected Itachi to somehow overpower Orochimaru as hinted but Itachi just looks at him and rapes Orochimaru with one genjutsu! A paralysing genjutsu with nice visual of giant stakes slamming through Orochimaru’s body, and when Orochimaru feebly tries to do a jutsu, Itachi calmly chops off that famous forearm.
 |
 |
Now the burning question begets itself once again: why did Itachi run away from Jiraiya instead of raping him with all his broken Sharingan genjutsus or even use his Mangekyou Sharingan jutsus? Of course this question has been around ever since Itachi ran away since it was a conundrum when Orochimaru was scared of Itachi, yet Itachi ran away from Jiraiya….but Orochimaru obviously has no fear of Jiraiya and even thinks Jiraiya is a bumbling idiot.
Itachi himself said that at best they would suffer heavy injuries and at worst both sides would die. But yet against Orochimaru, Itachi could have very easily killed him with zero injury at all. After all Itachi says “Orochimaru, no matter what jutsus, they are useless before these eyes” but why say that to Orochimaru and not to Jiraiya? Why rape Orochimaru so easily but yet have no confidence in beating Jiraiya? Does Itachi know something about Jiraiya’s fighting style that we don’t?
While it’s true that Jiraiya seems to rely heavily on summoning jutsu variations which cannot be copied by the Sharingan, surely itachi is more than just his Sharingan. Even before he got the Sharingan, Itachi was already lauded as a super prodigy and of course he wiped out his whole clan which is no easy feat. I’m sure he has many powerful jutsus up his sleeve as well. But I really wish we got to see Jiraiya fight seriously; in fact I was expecting him to have a grand finale against Orochimaru but that doesn’t seem quite likely anymore.
Beside the lame deus ex machina explanation that the story forced Itachi to run away from Jiraiya, who do you think was lying or telling the truth about who is stronger than the other?
123 Comments
I think the reason was because at that time, Itachi had used his Mangekyou numerous time in a short period of time, so he didn’t have enough chakra left to take on Jiraiya. He even stopped his Sharingan all together, which I imagine is a sign of great weakness for him. On top of that, they were basically in Jiraiya’s territory, where he’s in control of basically everything.
I think if Itachi fought Jiraiya at full strength, he wouldn’t have any trouble at all.
Not enough chakra isn’t really an excuse since prior to encountering Jiraiya, Itachi had only used the Mangekyou once on Kakashi. After that during the encounter with Jiraiya he wasted the Tsukiyomi on Sasuke right in front of Jiraiya and he still had enough chakra to do the Amaterasu.
It can be, since Kakashi did talk with Itachi and they discussed about how Itachi’s Sharingan-jutsus were very chakra-expensive. Itachi did run out of steam during that second encounter with Kakashi after all.
Cheers.
i think it was kakashi who pointed out that ms or the continued use of sharingan can have adverse effect on one’s eyes”he asked how bad is your eyes or something like that” in theory when orochi and itachi fought itachi eyes where not as damaged compared to when he fought jiraiya also itachi used the Tsukiyomi on sasuke so the strain in using his eyes are getting to him
Skane: It could be an excuse but for that encounter it shouldn’t be because Itachi used the Tsukiyomi on Sasuke a while AFTER he had met Jiraiya. So why waste it on a small-fry like Sasuke instead of the big fish like Jiraiya? I’m pretty sure Itachi wasn’t planning on meeting Sasuke there either so there was no reason to save up a Tsukiyomi instead of using it on Jiraiya.
And in the 2nd encounter with Kakashi, Itachi didn’t really run out of chakra because he only gave his clone 1/3 of his chakra supply. He did make an uncharacteristic error though.
Onizuka: Yeah I agree with that theory since the Mangekyou Sharingan doujutsus use massive amounts of chakra so I think it creates a huge strain on the eyes of Itachi each time he uses them. Even Kisame said it was dangerous to use it too many times.
Hmm well we know Jiraiya is strong enough that he was considered the first choice for the role of Hokage.
Is Itachi strong enough to take on a Hokage candidate?
If he can beat Orochimaru, who beat Sarutobi, then I would have to say yes.
Then again, in the end wasn’t it Sarutobi’s body that really failed him, not his skills as a ninja.
If he could have hung on a little longer he could maybe have taken Orochimaru with him.
I think that Itachi simply meant at that particular time Jiraiya who hadn’t used as much chakra as himself, would be the victor.
If they were to meet again, with Itachi at full strength then maybe Itachi would have a more optimistic outlook on his chances of winning.
His statement may have been more based upon the situation rather than an outright declaration of who is stronger.
But yes it was rather disappointing at how quickly he took Orochimaru down, makes the snake sannin come off as rather pathetic…
I was actually under the impression Itachi was referring to Kyuubi!Naruto when he said the “at at best they would suffer heavy injuries and at worst both sides would die” part. In the anime at least – he used a pronoun that reffering to something other than who they were just talking about after mentioning Jiraiya. I think.
[I'm not sure why they left though after they realised Naruto wasn't a worthy enemy.]
My pet theory is because Itachi wanted to have Sasuke kill Naruto, after seeing that he was ‘the best friend’ in the mangekyou requirement… in a way.
DJ: Yeah I’m pretty sure if Sarutobi was the same age as Orochimaru, he would have defeated him. Orochimaru himself alluded to that during the battle. While it’s possible that Itachi was basing his judgement on the situation, it’s still a 2 on 1 battle which says a lot on Jiraiya’s power. And we must consider that Itachi could have used the Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu on Jiraiya as well.
Regarding the Itachi vs Orochimaru, I thought about it and considered that Orochimaru wasn’t truly pulling out all the stops like he did against Sarutobi. After all he wanted Itachi’s body, probably unharmed or minially harmed if possible.
Anca: Itachi is most probably not referring to Kyuubi Naruto because when you see when they encounter Naruto, they don’t even care about him seriously, even semi-joking about cutting his legs off. Also when Itachi said that, the rest of the whole dialogue was pretty much focused on Jiraiya so he would be also referring to Jiraya for that sentence.
As for the “best friend” theory, Itachi doesn’t even know that Sasuke and Naruto know each other, prior to that meeting.
The answer to all these questions, in only two words:
lol naruto
Cheers.
maybe its like kakashi said about fight a mangekyou sharigan user, you have to have two people facing the opposite direction, one facing the guy and the other guy watching his back..although naruto would have jiriaya’s back and naruto wasnt that strong compared to itachi and fishguy(whatever his name is)
about jiraiya being able to summon creatures? i duno why but i thought that you could only summon one type of creature like frogs in jiraiya’s instance. can you summon more than that?
now who do you think is in sasukes body, orchmar or sasuke?
i wanted to see jiriya and orch got at it too..maybe well see that in a flash back.
The answer is:
Rock beats scissor, scissor beats paper, paper beats rock.
guy: Haha I don’t think Naruto really mattered to them in that battle. At that point Kisame could have easily handled Naruto without breaking a sweat at all.
Yeah Jiraiya can only summon frogs but he can summon many different kinds of toads, that’s what makes him more versatile in combat.
And the answer to who is in Sasuke’s body is in chapter 346
OMG, is Chapter 246 out? xD -bypasses all talk about Oro-freak-
But Orochimaru is major lose. I’m not surprised he got PWNed that badly, even if he wanted Itachi’s body in one piece. Excuses, excuses xP
“My pet theory is because Itachi wanted to have Sasuke kill Naruto, after seeing that he was ‘the best friend’ in the mangekyou requirement… in a way.”
@anca, I guess that view depends on how loyal Itachi is to the goals of Akatsuki because they need Naruto for the Kyuubi.
“Yeah Jiraiya can only summon frogs but he can summon many different kinds of toads, that’s what makes him more versatile in combat.”
@alkanphel, lol maybe Itachi just didn’t want to go up against Gamabunta!
^-^
Well it seems that Orochimaru gets very weak before a body change. Look how easily Sasuke took him on, he couldn’t get any jutus at all, his body was falling apart. He only took up any fight at all because Sasuke didn’t kill him immediately. (my opinion.) I believe that Itachi’s eyes hadn’t had much damage from the Sharingan yet when he faced Orochimaru as well.
Personnaly, I think Itachi just didn’t think fighting with Jiraya was worth the effort at the time. He’d already had one fight that day, and had verified that Naruto had the Kyubbi. He had accomplished what he had come to do and saw no reason to fight unnecessarily. Why waste the effort?
Whispered Hope: Spoilers are out, enough to tell us who won.
DJ: I can’t imagine what would happen if Jiraiya summoned Gamabunta in that small corridor lol
Linya: I wonder if the giant stakes is some genjutsu that is common to the Sharingan because I don’t think Itachi was using the Mangekyou Sharingan against Orochimaru at that battle.
I do think that it’s possible Itachi already made up his mind to run away from Jiraiya and thus wasted the Tsukiyomi on Sasuke but I don’t think he expected Jiraiya to use that Toad Stomach summoning. If Itachi didn’t have Amaterasu, he might have really lost there.
i think it’s a matter of preferance. Itachi used that crazy jutsu on sasuke because he’s a sadist that enjoys torturing his little brother, and could care less about other people like jiraya. I think he avoided fighting kekkaishi and jiraya because he wasn’t interested in defeating them. As for orochimaru being weak, the flashback showed him caught in Itachi’s genjutsu. We have no idea how the fight fared before that, only that orochimaru got snagged in itachi’s gaze of death. I wouldn’t put one above the other, only they each have thier strong points. Jiraya is probably a little weaker then orochimaru. He lost to oro during the three way fight b/c he was heavily drugged and couldn’t use chakra. It’s all a matter of what circumstances each of them is in.
XDXD: I think there wasn’t much of any fight before Orochimaru got caught in the genjutsu. Both of them look completely clean and unharmed, and their clothes are the same as well. I suspect Orochimaru started off with the soul-swapping jutsu but Itachi countered it with an even more powerful genjutsu. And the rest is history.
The Sannin battle had Orochimaru as the worst off since he couldn’t even do any jutsus but yet he was able to hold his own against Jiraiya who could still do some uncontrolled jutsus.
doesnt Mangekyou Sharingan have three jutsus or what..i read somewhere that mangenkyou means kaldescope so, is it just that one gensutu-specific move ?
now if itachi didnt use the mangekyou when he was fighting orochimaru then sasuke could stop orch from the soul transfer!
LOL, yea Gamabunta would have totally destroyed the place!
Another thought about the strength of Jiraiya, he was the Fourth’s mentor…
@XDXD, That’s a good point too. If it doesn’t seem necessary to Itachi then he won’t bother with it.
guy: It’s not confirmed how many crazy jutsus the Mangekyou Sharingan actually has. Since ‘mangekyou’ means kaieldoscope, so maybe every Mangekyou Sharingan looks different like how Itachi’s one and Kakashi’s one look totally different. And also maybe each MS has a different set of jutsus, which I think so because meta-plot-wise it will make the battles more interesting.
lol… shounen powerlvls
While he has him in that dimension, Sasuke should take out Kabuto while he’s at it ^-^
Maybe he wants Kabuto around for the same reason Orochimaru wanted him around. A good medic nin is really useful. But I doubt Sasuke expects Kabuto to take revenge for Orochimaru and I think Sasuke is just going to leave the base now.
The manga goes into detail about the different elements or nature of a ninja’s abilities. The concept is much what eshchan said, the rock paper scissors concept.
If this is true then isnt Jiraiya elements of Wind, since he can use the Rasengan? According to the manga’s set of rules, Fire beats wind. Itachi is of Fire Element. Did the creator miss this, or is he going to explain in later chapters that Jiraiya is really water element? I hope they dont stuff up their own logic.
Earth > Water > Fire > wind > Lightening > Earth
If they follow their own rules, and my assumption are wrong and Jiraiya is of Water element, then they still have a fan.
I would love to see how the Konoha’s Yellow flash would have compared. Maybe we’ll see it through Naruto.
Jiraiya isn’t wind, Rasengan doesn’t have any element. If you catch up with the manga you’ll know this.
Jiraiya is probably Fire and Earth, since you see him use both in the fight against Orochi.
OMG!!!
I think I almost died laughing reading the latest chapter.
Konohomaru has outdone himself, Sai and Sasuke naked doing naughty things LOL!
noticed sasuke still had the seal on him? and how he said, he took control of orch in manga 346…does this mean that saskue needs a transfer every three years.
jiraiya is problably a master of all the elemnts, and the reason orch treats jiraiya like an idiot, is cuz its how sasuke treats nartuo. it wouldnt matter which one is stonger, sasuke still picks on naruto just the same.
uh hey do girls find guy on guy stuff hot..
Yeah Sasuke still has the Curse Seal and Kakashi’s seal on him but I don’t think he needs to transfer every 3 years because he’s still in his original body. Also I think the reason why Orochimaru had to switch is because his soul was incomplete so no matter which body he transfers to, it will always rot. Not because the jutsu makes him change.
Originally Orochi didn’t need to transfer every 3 years – that was the time limit before he could use his ability again.
The need for transfering the first time came from having his hands taken, while the second time came from using an unsuitable body.
Yeah it’s quite easy to mix it up. But I guess it doesn’t matter now that Orochimaru is gone….for the time being hehe
“uh hey do girls find guy on guy stuff hot..”
@Guy, despite my friend trying to get me into that sort of thing, no I don’t find it hot.
I did find it utterly hilarious in this case though. I think it was great for Kishimoto to play up the idea ^-^ It shows what a great sense of humor he has.
Well for every girl or guy that doesn’t like it, there’s 100 more girls that love it O_O I only find it weird Kishimoto used known characters for guy-onguy and nameless characters for girl-on-girl. Why not some Kurenai x Anko?? Hahahaha
dj- it show that kish is a perv!!
@guy, lol yes he is! But not as bad as some manga ka’s out there ^-^
@alkanphel, maybe one day he’ll respond to his male fans and do something along those lines. ^-^ I know Anko has a lot of male fans and looks like the chick Sasuke is going after next wears hot pants. LOL Kishimoto was all pervy in this chapter, that was quite the butt shot of her ^-^
And about Kabuto, he probably is more use to Sasuke alive and besides Sasuke more than likely doesn’t see Kabuto as too much of a problem given how he took care of Orochimaru. He probably feels he could take him out any time he needs to.
I’ve always wondered about Kabuto, and what his motivations are. I’ve never truly been entirely convinced that he completely serves Orochimaru.
Sasuke doesn’t seem to have included Kabuto in Team Sasuke though. Maybe now Kabuto will be a rogue ninja with his own agenda. :O
in the latest chapter 346 i think the new guy that sasuske recuited seems strong n he says he might b able 2 beat sasuske with zabuza’s old sword does that mean that zabuza was stronger than he looked…..n 2 does anyone kno wat sasuske is up 2?????
someone said he might be trying to gather up different elemental users, ie sasuke is fire, the liquid guy might uses water. he might just want to copy all their jutsus, if orch didnt show sasuke enough jutsus.
junior: Sasuke is probably gathering up a team to go attack Itachi. Maybe the rest will distract Kisame while Sasuke goes 1v1 with Itachi.
I agree with alkanphel that seems like the logical thing to do. Sasuke can have this band of sound projects take on the rest of Akatsuki so he can focus on Itachi without any of them butting in.
Plus if they die in their mission, no big loss to him ^-^
hey you know how the last frame of 347 ends with “this chakara, could it be”, and that girl probably thinks it orchimaru when its really sasuke..
guy: Why would the girl be surprised it’s Orochimaru? Since Orochimaru is the master of the place he should be the expected one. It could be referring to Sasuke’s chakra but if those scenes are happening at the same time Sasuke is at the Wave Country then maybe it’s not him.
maybe it is someone else, but i was saying that she would be suprised its sasuke,because sasuke took control over orch then sasuke has orch’s chakra..
i hope its not another character, kish is just filling the story with all these people
and she said she knows orch is dead
if sasuske iz gatherin a team 2 go after itachi then does that mean he has no intrest in naruto anymore n now that naruto killed that dude that steals hearts then the akatsuki guys prolly want him even more so som1 iz gonna get in the others wayn as far as i’m concerned akatsuki + sasuske =dead naruto.lol
guy: Just think of these new guys as the new Sound 4. Kishimoto will either kill them off by fighting with some Akatsuki or maybe some of the Konoha teams we haven’t seen yet.
junior: I don’t think Sasuke ever had any interest in Naruto at all in the first place. I do think that the Akatsuki will focus more on capturing Naruto now that they killed Hidan & Kakuzu.
bummer….m yet naruto still insists on bringin sasuske bak 2 tha village i’m sure there’s no jutsu 2 make that spoiled brat sasuske stay anyways n sai i don’t trust the dude one bit.
itz almost like this season is gonna break som fans hearts like all the garra lovers(tears) does he even hav his abilities anymore?????
Yeah Gaara still has his sand moving ability but I don’t know if he has the automatic sand defense still.
i cant seem to get anymore naruto shippuden off of youtube, i dont know if its cuz theyre removing it or if its not out yet..
does anyone know a different site where you dont download anything…