A picture from San Francisco’s Japan Town. An offspring of Japanese culture or adapted for commercialization?
So I was talking to a reserve warrant officer, whose real job is being a judge, about the fall of the Roman Empire. Like any conversation between servicemen we eventually ended up going on a tangent about the cultural legacy of the Roman Empire. So after this rather curious and fun conversation and reading Hinano’s rant on deviant art, I came up with a half decent post topic that has in no way shape or form to do with warfare. Also at time of writing I am on vicoden and anti-biotics, so if you wish to read a rant by some one hopped up on meds read on.
I was able to get back my weekend and on Sunday I happened upon a street fair in San Francisco’s Japan Town, aka the Cherry Blossom Festival. It was the last day of it and I had to park on the other side of a rather steep hill, but suffice to say I came I saw, and I ate takoyaki. So while I was standing in line for nigh half an hour for my first taste of takoyaki, I was absorbing in the sights. There were a bunch of Caucasians dressed up in Japanese garb, and some middle aged Asians singing a bunch of songs by Earth Wind and Fire, as well as the ubiquitous cosplayers and old elder Japanese women folk who wore the kimono.
It was a cultural festival to be sure with your taiko drum group, folk dancing, and the Taru Mikoshi with the obligatory dudes in loincloth. However the thing that stuck out were the two local rap radio stations that were hosting events there as well. Also in addition to Japanese eats such as yakisoba (minus Tsuruya’s catering service), takoyaki, sushi, etc.; there were also nachos, cotton candy, and garlic fries. Suffice to say it was more of a grand gathering of Bay Area denizens than a pure Japanese event.
The question that comes to mind though is if enthusiasts of Japanese cultural products such as anime and manga are part of and contributing to an aspect of Japanese culture? If Japan sees a continual slump in the population of native Japanese (excluding the Ainu) can the expatriate community and otakus else where preserve Japanese culture? If the art style endured but the writers were no longer Japanese, but gaijin would the result still be anime?
Impz’s views
To start off, I will apologize to all if I show any errors in my judgment, but this is my take on Crusader’s question.
To be honest, I feel that to think of another nation or even expatriates preserving a culture is a really idealistic but unachievable idea. The thing is that even if the art style endures, they will always be something inside the story that makes it completely different. Firstly, even though I admit that I have not watched too much of Afro Samurai, it is in fact a style that tries to emulate the Japanese animated style. In a way, it’s probably a decent case study of gajin enthusiasts re-creating something of a Japanese anime culture.
Did it work? I feel that it did not. I feel that it has become a fusion of a product, influenced not only by Japanese culture but also by the various influences that have been absorbed by the producers due to their own culture experiences. Admittedly, I do agree that the expatriates might be able to preserve a little bit of the Japanese culture that is learned from them, but to say that the art is still of a pure Japanese culture will be quite a tall tale. I do need some convincing.
Culture is not about merely products but it is perhaps the huge mentality that is derived from living in the exact place where the culture is formed. It is a definitely different creation of an art form that is created by someone who has spent his life the whole time in the place where the art form is created compared to someone who has only seen it in a secondary experience. The way of creation, be it creating in the same way, will come out in a totally different product. That is what I personally feel, because anyone can copy a culture, but you cannot live culture unless you are there.
Talking about other historical legacies, I feel that foreign countries have often adopted and assimilated culture from foreign sources. An example will be religion. I am very sure that no matter how “Chinese” the rituals are carried out in Singapore pertaining to Buddhism, it is perhaps a mile away from the actual true sense of Theravada Buddhism in Thailand, Tibet as perhaps from the origins of India.
Perhaps, with my lack of knowledge of the topic, I will beg for someone to give me a clarification on my argument which can be flawed, but I always believe in that culture no matter how much copied, is merely a copy and not something that is true. People have said before that copying is the best form of flattery, but it is hardly the same thing. It might have the bone and structure of the construct, but without the life of the original infusion where it is derived from, it is just that, a mere construct.
Hence, if anything, I believe that it is impossible for someone who lived a completely different life compared to the average Japanese otaku who has lived in the area. Are they both in love with anime? Yes. Are they both the same in preserving the same otaku culture? No, I believe that it is adapted.
Crusader’s View
I think that even if or rather when Japanese culture dies the expatriates and other gajin enthusiasts in the academic and non-academic fields can preserve something of the original culture. When the Roman Empire fell with the conquest of Constantinople by the Turks it did not mean that Roman culture died that day. Roman law codes are still the basis of law codes in Europe where English common law failed to take hold. Roman architecture is still used for public buildings, the concept of citizenship not based on ethnicity still endures, and republican government is in use.
Roman engineering and science are still being studied and Hellenic sculpture is still made and displayed. Roman military organization, engineering, and concepts are still being taught in Western Military academies. Latin is still studied though very much a dead language there are still those of us who still study it because using Latin made us sound learned. While slavery and gladiatorial combat have since died out I would hardly call those a terrible loss.
The Romans may no longer be around but their legacy did endure and continues to live through many other successor cultures. Heck the Vandals, Goths, Saxons, Huns, Visigoths, and other outside peoples eventually adopted Roman culture to suit their needs so a population/political death is not by default the end of a culture.
Is there a real difference between sushi from Japan and in other places? Do people stop being Japanese the minute they step on a foreign shore? I would think not since hardly any one changes their last name to Smith when moving into an English speaking land. In regards to cuisine the loss of whale meat for California Roll, Philadelphia Roll, and Spam Sushi is a very good trade in my opinion.
In San Francisco there is a Japanese shrine and Japanese Buddhist sects milling about. Japanese martial arts have their gaijin enthusiasts and heck some of them get to fifteenth dan and have their own schools. There is a whole segment of military studies devoted to the samurai and the histories and intricacies of Japanese warfare. There are a couple of Japanese grocery stores with very Japanese prices for those who dabble in Japanese cooking.
I have seen many well done fan arts by the gaijin community and in truth gaijin fan fiction can easily pass for your run of the mill harem script. I don’t think that the gaijin community contributes absolutely nothing to anime. We spend our hard earned money just like otakus in Japan. We have guys with life sized pillows and no less rabid fanboys and fangirls. There are anime and manga conventions in the West so to say that the end of Japan is the end of anime is not necessarily true.
Culture is not some monolithic entity that is static, it does change and in our case internationalization of anime is just a not so recent phenomenon. In ages long since gone during Japan’s classical age women had it pretty damn good, they stayed in their old homes with their parents after marriage, had many more legal rights, and were crowned Empresses and at times ruled without an Emperor. Yet this better age for women did not make it less Japanese than the tragedy that is their current situation.
While gaijin may be snubbed now by a few Japanese nationals, if they were no longer part of the equation we are still viable cultural heirs. The barbarians who ended the Western Roman Empire became heirs to Roman culture and in their day they too were snubbed by the Romans. If nothing else the memory of Japanese culture would endure in media and arts other than anime, ninjas will probably out live anime any way.
As for mere copies is there some perquisite that all sushi must be prepared by Japanese hands? If a competent chef followed the same techniques and recipes is it still imitation? Not even anime is immune to outsourcing, so perhaps it will simply be subsumed by the emergence of a global culture. Besides do we really need harem series by the dozen?
13 Comments
I don’t think that a culture can be reproduced without its own kernel, so the question is answered in the negative. American japanophiles don’t even have the purchasing power to save Japantown in Frisco, where the Crusader was. Search the web for “Japantown mall sale”, a fairly sad story is going to unfold. Basically, the bad part of the mall (ironically, the one where the lead picture was taken) with the associated hotel is pulling down the whole thing. The other half would probably survive on its own, but they are unfortunately joined.
I noticed this too at the Cherry Blossom Parade here in DC. There were hardly any Asians there, so hardly any Japanese. The parade had ..pretty much nothing relevant to Cherry Blossoms OR Japanese culture. It was pretty hilarious. When they showed commercials for the event on TV there was Chinese food and Kung Fu demonstrations..hilarious xD.
I don’t know about preserving a culture, but what comes to gaijin enthusiasts and otaku I wouldn’t underrate what they’re doing or call it mere ‘copying’. At its best they are creating something of their own. Think about it, Japan copied stuff like the writing characters from China, tea came from China and so on, and look at what they created out of it.
mmh,
A japanese culture without Japan can’t exist,IMO.
Crusader,you use the roman empire as an exemple.But Latin is a dead language.Some of us still know the ancients myth but we don’t believe them.That’s the difference between an enthusiast and the real thing.
A true roman would believe them or at least care about them.For us, Hercule’s tale is just a curiosity,for the greeks it was important.It was part of their cultural identity.Every greek knew it,today in the suburbs of Paris or Los Angeles,who knows that Hercule isn’t a disney character?The greeks would be horrified to see what Disney did to their myths.
We, modern westerners are judeo-christians(even if your of asian origins, atheist and living in Sidney),the romans were….well roman.You can say that the roman empire became christian but at the time the empire in question was no more roman than greek or babylonian(think about the poor Caton the ancient who lamented at the loss of the old customs).It was a huge mix of different culture with oriental religion,latins for administrive matters,greeks for the arts(that’s a generalization of course),etc.
We can say “by Jupiter!” as much as we want it doesn’t have the same effect as “My God!” for us.
I agree with ZeusIrae and Impz
Once commercialisation gets its hands on a concept, it deforms/molds it to its convenience, until it’s an entirely different thing. Preservation isn’t the mentality our society holds, but merely monetary gain and commodity. The ‘culture’ would be taken as a trend, a product. A few changes here and there to fit the standards of the foreign place, and bingo: you have sushi with Mexican chili and sauces (for real).
The few dedicated gaijin scholars/otakus that truly dedicate themselves to the study of the culture’s true essence won’t be enough to fight commercialisation.
It takes a lot to be able to be scholarly responsible (to be able to see things through Japanese POV, put things into perspective, evaluating things in context, understand the circumstances and rules of that culture). It takes time, research and objectivity, and as the anime craze grows and becomes more globalised, it’ll be harder. And even if the average otaku can manage it and defend it accurately, it’s still not enough (in my opinion). By not being Japanese, the whole thing changes. There are different perspectives, influences and lifestyles that WILL be reflected on the ‘preserved’ Japanese/anime culture.
“I would think not since hardly any one changes their last name to Smith when moving into an English speaking land”
A close friend’s grandpa was forced to change, not only his last name, but his first name too, to fit with the majority, when he came here. Instead of being Tsuda Kiyoshi (i don’t really remember his real name) he ended up being legally known as Tuda Ricardo.
I myself see it with Mexican culture, as living in the border of U.S and Mexico allows you to see the difference. The culture that ‘Mexican-Americans’ (in general) are spreading and showing to the world is VERY different from Mexico’s true culture, and to be honest, sometimes even insulting to Mexicans (i’m not saying that every one of them, but a great amount). There’s deformation/loss of language, values, beliefs, festivities and traditions. In some places they make a bigger deal out of the Revolution day than of the Independence, sometimes because they think they’re the same (yes, they’re different). A silly example..a girl I know, of Mexican ancestry, very excitedly once said that she “reallyreally love mexican food. Omg TacoBell is like my life, sabes?” when TacoBell has nothing to do with Mexican food, in reality.
Oh and my sensei keeps saying that the Japanese food served in both Mexico and U.S., is quite different from what he eats back home (even when he goes to restaurants that are supposedly genuinely japanese and only set in foreign soil).
(oh, and just in case a M-A pops out and attempts to kill me cuz it sounds as i i’m dissing M-As, i’d like to point out that I’m one myself
, I just lived all over Mexico almost all my life, and studied it for a long time, so i can tell the difference more easily)
btw, so sorry for…um..triple posting…*hides* can someone edit the long post and then delete the extra ones, please? (i don’t even know if it’s possible/allowed heh sorry)
To answer the question in the topic, not much. The thing is, lots of people still don’t understand the culture, regardless if they know anime or not. I’m not saying that I know everything about Japan (or even America for that matter), but the average fan should study more.
Oh. Yes, I’ve been to that building in San Fran before. I so need to get okonomiyaki there again.
You can’t look at some roman architectural and law elements still being implemented today and say roman culture still endures. I’ve been to Kuala Lumpur for four days and even in that short period of time, cuisine part of their culture is so much more interesting and meaningful than any Malaysian-culture wannabes they can offer in where I live. How range of noodle dishes and various meats, seafoods and vegetables in stick are displayed in streets for us to select at ridicuously cheap prices, or how you savour nans by dipping in curries and spices with your hand, or how giant fans spin few feets above you while cool water hoses spray over you in that steaming climate, and the list goes on because I later realised how one could just spend their travel for eating in Southeast Asia. What do we have here in western world to mimic that? Some malaysian dishes served in well air-conditioned food courts. Atmosphere is completely different and so are the food. Even if you go into one of those restaurants, maybe the flavours will be similar in taste (although you’d find it somewhat watered down for westerners), but again, that open feeling under hot climate and people with just sleeves and shorts talking in whatever language they speak, there is nothing like it. In my opinion, culture is shaped by many elements such as climate, people’s interactions within the society, landscape, resources, etc. And you can’t take a part of it and try to reproduce it completely in a completely different culture. That part of the culture will respond to the different environment and adept to become something entirely different. It won’t be exactly Malaysian culture but it won’t be something western either, so I don’t think you can exactly copy a culture too.
I’d have to say that the ‘culture’ here is adapted to fit with the mores and values and likes of North American culture, regarding the ‘otaku’ culture here, rather than being inherited or similar to the original Japanese-based one. Part of what defines Japanese otaku culture, in my books, is the way they get absolutely OBSSESED with certain things… something which is, from what I’ve seen, partially derived from the society in which they operate. You can’t really separate a culture from the society that births it; North American and Japanese society are about as similar as French is to Xhosa – this means that anything that gets imported into the other one is altered to fit with their ideas and values. Just as they’ve adopted Engrish phrases, idiots here will wear Kanji or Chinese calligraphical symbols as tattoos without any understanding of the word represented beyond a very simple description… if they understand it at all.
@Pete Zaitcev
Japantown has existed in one form or another for 106 years now I think it will continue to endure. While the commercial failure of a few businesses is of some concern stuff there gets expensive, there are limits on how much people are willing to spend. Chinatown has had its share of business failures, but there is always some one else to fill in. Even if there is no mall the parading of the mikoshi would continue.
@random guest
Right, the Japanese have adopted many things to create their own culture. They imported Chinese writing systems and tried to adopt meritocracy.
@ZeusIrae
I do think that Roman culture did survive the fall of Constantinople since Western culture as it is now was built upon the Roman legacy. It may not be all pervasive but it is there in the law code and when you are forewarned with Caveat emptor. Sure we don’t believe in the pagan gods, but the Romans themselves became Christians, as I understand it the Eastern Orthodox church still endures so in a way a Roman religion still lives.
@MarsBattyAngel=^-^=
I’ll merge your posts in just a bit. However I don’t think that you have to be of Japanese ancestry to be Japanese. Just like you don’t have to be born in America by American parents to be American. While the Japanese themselves try to treat their culture as some sort of invite only club I don’t think that this is true. Culture does not flow via bloodlines.
If I lived in Mexico since birth would I be any less Mexican if I was of different ancestry? I don’t think that those who weren’t born in the US are merely imitating. As for changing your name, some choose to do so others keep the romanized version of their name. We have stopped designating for sometime now thought the memory of it endures.
@Bata-kun
I don’t think one has to have an in depth knowledge of their own culture to be a part of it. If I questioned an average American student about Americana i doubt many would pass with flying colors. Suffice to say I don’t think you need to study as a rule, but living it and adopting it is what is critical about assimilation.
@anonmyous
The thing about cuisine is in my opinion that cooks vary in their skills and preferences. So it is with every Japanese person and American person. Variation is part of every culture, there is no one be all end all way to cook rice. As I see it there is no one way to be Japanese either. If American agricultural products made their way into a Malaysian dish would that there fore make it not Malaysian?
@Haesslich
Japanese culture has adopted things from China before so if it adopts aspects of North American culture would that be any different? There are Japanese communists, but communism isn’t from Japan. Democracy is not Japanese but they use it nonetheless. I think culture flows along more human lines rather than geography and political demarcations. In terms of being human they are no better than us and can hardly claim either inferiority or superiority. Moyism has amassed quite a haul over they years and goes the extra mile to import his stuff, is he then a lesser otaku than some one in Japan with a similar collection? All humans are capable of obsession, I am obsessed with the study of war.
I don’t think that a Japanese-American is any less Japanese by adopting a new homeland, just as some Yank can live in Japan and adopt it’s language and customs can be American-Japanese. I think humans have more in common than our cultural identities, pettiness and cruelty are not exclusive of any one culture.
I think that Yiddish has integrated quite well in the US Jewish comedians are Americans too thus many a New Yorker also knows a few phrases. Adopting loan words is more of a hit or miss thing. The technical vocabulary for music is Italian, but in the US it is used and understood.
@ Crusader: First of all, thanks for arranging the posts.
“Just like you don’t have to be born in America by American parents to be American.” waah Americans are everyone in the American continent, not just the U.S. T_T I get what you mean, it’s just a technicality I stress a lot.
“I don’t think one has to have an in depth knowledge of their own culture to be a part of it. If I questioned an average American student about Americana i doubt many would pass with flying colors. Suffice to say I don’t think you need to study as a rule, but living it and adopting it is what is critical about assimilation.”
I don’t know how people live the present and try to build a future, if they don’t know how the past has shaped what they’re living then. You can’t really be part of something if you don’t know what it is. People may think they can, but then the t.v questionaries come out (for example), go public, and then just they just make the entire country look bad. How can one boast and claim to be from the “land of freedom and opportunities” -supposedly- and not even know (nor care) where those concepts come from? It’s sad and the downfall of a country’s culture’s core.
“Culture does not flow via bloodlines.”
That’s not what I’m saying. My point (or one of them) is that no matter how much you study the culture, it’s not the same as growing up THERE to get the real/entire feeling of the culture. And vice versa. It helps too if you’re Jap, because many ppl of foreign backgrounds are raised with their own sets of values, priorities, customs and manierisms. Then you get a mixture XD.
“If American agricultural products made their way into a Malaysian dish would that there fore make it not Malaysian”
Hmmm…Not sure about Malaysia, I’d have to ask my friends there… but again applying it to my own country, agricultural products from the U.S. that are used for Mexican food do taste different, have different quality, and in many (arguably, most) cases it’s not for the better. Many patriots don’t consider those dishes really Mexican, hehe
“In terms of being human they are no better than us and can hardly claim either inferiority or superiority”
Well, it’s not really about superority/inferiority as human beings but about their culture. About whether it can really be preserved as it is. We already know it’s being ad@pted, but then, by being modified it’s not really Japanese culture… just bits and pieces taken as trends. I hope no one has read the RBD (Rebelde) ‘manga’ produced here… but there’s an example of how, if it’s not Japanese, it’s not really manga/anime…
@ Haesslich: “I’d have to say that the ‘culture’ here is adapted to fit with the mores and values and likes of North American culture, regarding the ‘otaku’ culture here, rather than being inherited or similar to the original Japanese-based one.(…) You can’t really separate a culture from the society that births it; (…)anything that gets imported into the other one is altered to fit with their ideas and values”
Agreed. Culture isn’t preserved by other cultures, it’s adapted, and thus no longer the same. Japanese use Chinese characters and have some other cultural ad@ptations; would you say the Japanese culture/language is the SAME as the Chinese then?
I think we have to be careful as anime enthusiasts to not be too critical when Western culture experiments with anime. Instad, we should be supportive of people who try to bridge the gap between the two styles.
Japan isn’t a world of Anime. I think that’s the flaw in this argument. Thus it is impossible to sum up Japanese culture (or any culture) into its own subculture.
“Nachos and Garlic Fries”
Ugh. At a Japanese Cultural Festival.
I loathe trying to attract dumbasses who only come for everything material.
Those who don’t understand the significance and meanings of what the festival means to Japanese people shouldn’t be there at all.