Truly GAR. No matter what Crusader says. EDIT: Its not Shoujo GAR your green haired trap!
So during my fruitless efforts to sit through Rosario + Vampire without sighing or trying to gouge out my eyes I began to ponder more deeply my inability to stomach it. My roommate came in and asked me if I was in fact watching hentai, before I could answer he inquired whether or not it involved having the woman or loli shit and urinate during intercourse. Let me let you process that for a moment, yes defecating and urinating…though since there is many a lolicon in this blogosphere I have yet to see a blog dedicated to anime with shitting and urinating.
Now I know how much of prude I am and while the first part of his query merely annoyed me the second half just left me dazed and confused. Now my roommate and friend is, for reasons I feel better remaining ignorant about, into bondage so the fact that he found hentai reprehensible means that even a pervert has a line that they cannot cross and their own pet peeves when it comes to vice. Now going off unto a tangent I think what we watch and what we avoid are a reflection of sorts of who we are, how we were, and what things we hold in utter contempt. Here are a few of my many prejudices hopefully it will serve some use to explain why I am taking up True Tears and why even men can find panty shots a bit off putting…
Panties are nasty.
Now as the laundry bitch for my family for over 7 years for a house hold of no less than eight women and five men, child laborer observer at my aunt’s laundromat and dry cleaning, and being a witness to housing conditions of female college students I can tell you that there is indeed a direct correlation between possession of fluffy toilet paper and panty staining (no it is not always blood you see). Fluffy toilet paper is rather costly and most public institutions, poor families, and starving college students often invest in John Wayne Toilet Paper, stuff that is rough and tough as hell and doesn’t take shit from nobody, I will let you draw the conclusion.
As a microbiology major, I can also say that I have it on good authority that these stains do indeed constitute a public health concern just like male staining. In short there is nothing magical about the damn things nor is keeping used ones a very good idea if you intend to live for very long or avoid a rather nasty death by losing 20 L of water daily to diarrhea. In short by researching the living conditions and environment of women the great mystery of is partially solved, they are in effect human and as such their underwear is scarcely cleaner than that of men. Armed with this would you relish keeping your own used drawers?
Prussians turn GAR into Gigantic Ass Retard.
The number of bastard children does not define a man, only the manner of his death!
Males in anime are to me even at their greatest but pale reflections of the manliest of men, the Prussians and their successors the Germans. I grew up looking up to such greats as Fredrick the Great, Clausewitz, Schlieffen, Scharnhorst, Guderian, Rommel, Ludendorff, Hindenburg, and Manstein. While most other boys my age desperately sought pr0n I was most enamored with Clausewitz’s On War as a means to crush my enemies. Nothing Kamina, Archer, and Lulu can do or ever do will ever match over 200 glorious years of Prussian military tradition or their influence on western military thought to the present. They were humbled by Napoleon, the Entente, and the Allies but not once did they ever lose hope for better times and each time rose back like a phoenix to challenge their foes in epic close run struggles mere decades after their defeats.
They eclipsed the French as the premier military power in the post Napoleonic years and while outnumbered they used every advantage they could muster rather than one a single weapons system that anime male heroes deign to do. The honor roll of the Prussian Officer Caste and their German successors is long and count among them decisive men, men of character, men of resolve, men who while flawed in loyalty never failed in their duties. The Prussian old guard respected all those brave souls who served in their struggles, even the Jews at a time when anti-Semitism was all the rage. For fourteen bitter years they held the line and honored their oaths to the Weimar Republic despite their utter contempt for democracy. Only when the last of the old Prussians died did Germany succumb to the evils of one mad Austrian Corporal. Such was their discipline that they chose to form a state within a state rather than launch coups every time the civilian government displeased them like some lesser armies deign to do.
Lulu’s army of Elevens and CB is but a lawless mob compared to the might of Prussia’s armies and her successor states. Besides how can “bone of my sword” compare to “Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl”? So the next time you crown that male lead GAR or whatever, consider for a moment what makes a man a man? Power means nothing if they have not the sense to use it properly.
Shoujo is manlier than Gundam.
Indeed mastery of logistics is of greater importance than tactics and strategy, for logistics make the other two possible.
Seriously now your average shoujo heroine is actually the model of Prussian values of strength, intelligence, honor, elegance, tolerance, frugality, and loyalty. I swear your average Gundam pilot spends more time emoing about regarding a myriad of unrelated subjects than his shoujo counter parts. Your average shoujo while suffering from occasional bouts of fear does not spend the same amount of time crying like a child like some Gundam Meister. Thoughtless displays of overwhelming power such as a mecha blast do not make boys into men. Nay it simply means that any idiot with a mecha can cause untold destruction. Sakura Kinamoto did not ask stupid questions when she was tasked with capturing Clow Cards, she simply did her duty and saw the operation through. Card Captor Sakura was a textbook example of one plucky shoujo waging a war without compromise that resulted in a decisive victory in her name as she recovered all the cards.
Ouran’s Haruhi Fujioka had no magic powers or a mecha and despite her lack of conventional power fostered loyalty from her classmates. She was poor but still managed her finances well in enough to never want for food or shelter while the average Gundam bridge bunny wastes blood stained money on superfluous shopping and creates inflation with each act of war. While Fujioka had many suitors she gave them scarcely a though or glance keeping her eye on her true objective, that of paying off her debt. Haruhi Fujioka longed for no one; she longed only to rid herself of her debt, such was her devotion to her cause. Such a thing is beyond the capabilities of male lead for they are beholden to their balls rather than their heads. Fujioka’s deceptions were elegantly executed causing even other otome to squeal with glee and fawn over her honest and simple nature, not even ultimate fan-girl Renge-sama was able to see through the elaborate ruse. Who else could turn unruly Yakuza into law abiding citizens and docile nekomimi meidos members of the student body than Haruhi Fujioka the Great? When Tamaki was dragged off, Fujioka rose magnificently to the occasion risking life and limb for her comrades, and earning command of the Host Club that was so rightfully hers.
While Setsuna F. Seiei is bigoted towards Azadstani, and CB likes to piss on other cultures, it is rare, nay, almost unheard of for a shoujo heroine to be xenophobic or possess any degree of misguided hatred. Even in the olden days when Sailor Moon first fought Queen Beryl Usagi struggled on to her field of honor despite horrendous losses in the hope that they might not have died in vain. Where a lesser man would have wept for days and ridden himself with doubt she pressed on! Despite her lack of academic prowess and talent Usagi fought for neither glory nor renown or for the sake of herself when the wergild asking price of world salvation were the lives of her, her friends, and that dunce she called boyfriend. There would have been no one to sing their praise yet the price was accepted and paid in full. When the world was at stake she sacrificed all her memories in the hope that all she held dear would yet survive. Let’s be honest now Kira would have killed a million peons to ensure that Arthrun lived but an hour longer. If the world needs saving it is never a good idea to turn to emo boys no matter what firepower they may sport, rather it is the shoujo who can carry the day and see things through to the end. With emo boys victories are never decisive or complete, but not so with shoujos for their victories are final and absolute.
Conclusion
In short I think that each of our own prejudices does prevent us from all enjoying some universal anime staples such as harem, emo characters, and panty shots. I personally think that prejudice in anime viewing is not based upon high morality but rather our own contempt for certain things. So what are your personal prejudices? What things do you find in anime so utterly contemptible that your hatred remains undiminished through the years?
28 Comments
Personally, as a girl, I’m disgusted with generic harem leads who are rarely interesting, not particularly good looking, and never warrant the attention they receive. Seriously, if it took as little effort as those guys put in to attracting women, everyone in the world would have a harem by now. Also, those generic haremettes are really grating on the nerves: they lack both intelligence and personality, there’s nothing attractive about that.
You do have to consider a couple of things when you try to compare individual heroes (Kamina and Archer in your example) to your Hindenburgs and Rommels of the world. The anime heroes you speak of are manly/GAR largely due to the fact they put themselves straight in the face of danger and stared it down. Now Rommel was a brilliant commander who wiped the floor with almost everyone else, in his moments of glory he was not out there with a BAR or a Garand mowing down Germans. He was in a nice command post for the most part directing the battle, albeit brilliantly. For me it’s hard to compare someone with individual heroism and manliness to a tactical commander in this regard.
And additionally many of those men of Prussian decent you mentioned were quite lacking in morals. Their utter contempt for democracy in addition to the fact that many either supported the Nazi’s and Hitler or were just apathetic make them inferior in many regards to the ideal anime heroes. The perennial GAR show, Gurren Lagann, has many individual heroes who were fighting to survive, but you really never see them as supporting racist regimes and the like.
I don’t watch much shoujo, but in the one’s I have they obsess or get emotional over just as much stupid crap as the Gundam Meister’s. To be honest shoujo series kind of gloss over and idealize war, the heroine saves everyone and they live happily ever after, they really don’t have to stop and consider how they would feel if their best friend got an arm blown off. In Gundam series war is depicted much more realistically (although not totally real for obvious reasons), and to be honest I think that most people would choose to blow the shit out of thousands to save their best friend in a real war. People don’t say oh lets all be friends all save everyone in reality, so for a shoujo heroine its easy to have all of these ideals.
Interesting stuff. I’m working on an entry all about panties right now.
Is it really true that the Prussians used to play a version of chess where you only see your own pieces? That’s an Akagi-level of cold-blooded GAR right there.
I abhor pantyshots and most fanservice in anime. There are only a few shows which I find enjoyable despite all that, but for pure guilty pleasure. I guess that’s one of the reasons why I prefer shoujo animes more than anything, aside from my natural shoujo-bias. Strong female leads FTW!
Now I know you mentioned nothing that can be related to an anime in your Panties are nasty section and what I’m about to say will have only the word Panties that is related to your post.
It is worth noting that in anime (excluding Hentai) Panties are forever fresh and fluffy [optional].
…What?
Nothing about Shiro Amada and the 08th MS Team, who were exemplary examples of soldiers, or even Kyosuke Nanbu and the ATX Team (Heck, a fair percentage of the cast of the SRW OG series could be classified as that)?
They were grunts, they were soldiers, they were forced to make decisions at the cost of the lives of many and the disapproval of their superiors. And yet they did so with dignity and honor befitting soldiers (one could question Shiro Amada’s actions at some points during the events of the show, but he did put an end to the One Year War on Earth and saved countless lives when he disobeyed orders, and of course, he had help cutting the red tape and stuff, but let’s disregard that last bit).
To put it simply, it’s not about whether you accept your orders or not (and in Kyosuke’s opinion, you have to do the former), but it’s how you intepret and execute your orders that matters.
And as a soldier, Crus, I hope you’ll see it that way.
And Calawain, sure, the Prussians were absolutely lacking in morals, but were good soldiers. To be a good soldier, you have to follow orders and not be afraid to put yourself in a position where you might die but save many others. And your orders are usually just that. Don’t need morals for that.
There is always the stigma in me that fanservice just detracts from the whole anime viewing experience. I remember I am so tired and loathing of fanservice, particularly with Ikkitousen which nearly made me want to buy a voodoo doll to kill the creators. The amount of pantsu shots nearly killed the living lights out of me.
Strangely, I actually like Rosario + Vampire and Kimiaru, both of which are equally guilty with pantsu and extreme fanservice shots. I still do not have the answer why the fanservice in Ikkitousen turned me off so much, when R + V’s fanservice made me laugh.
And where were you, 9-14 years ago, when Evangelion was THE show despite having all this white goop all over Shinji’s hand? (Perspective be damned; Shinji released more over the comatose Asuka than Hideaki Anno and Gainax could come up with all together.)
Yeah. You’re looking for something Prussian-esque; you’re looking at the wrong place, pal. Hell. I always mention the Transformers live-action movie since it’s more manly than all the anime created collectively.
@flou
Yes the grizzomness levels of your typical male leade is often quite lacking, in fact they all share rather slight sickly weak physiques to boot.
@Calawain
Let’s not forget that Rommel himself fought in the trenches of the First World War and was wounded three times. In an age before the advent of anti-biotics, morphine, controls on chemical weapons, trench warfare was infinitely more brutal and bloody than mecha fighting. Most of the Prussians that fought in the second World War also saw the horrors of combat in the hell that was No Man’s Land. The Prussian Old Guard also fought in the Wars of German Unification and I have little doubt that warfare in the ye olde days was far more dangerous and unsanitary than sitting in some cockpit that has padding. Archer and Kamina rarely if ever had to cope without many modern niceties like toilets and running water. Prussians were for the most part ground pounders and not pilots though Werner Voss and Manfred von Richthofen were infinitely braver than any mecha pilot because they flew with machines of wire and cloth.
These old Prussians were not mere paper pushers they rose through the ranks and survived whole wars not just skirmishes. Before they ever made General they stared out as 2LTs on the front. Besides the innovative tacitcs that they devised after the First World War eliminated for the most part another Somme and Verdun, only on the Eastern Front were things bloodier since the Soviets were more willing to jump into the meat grinder while dragging the German with them.
If we want individual heroics how about Brian Chontosh the marine who stormed 200 ft of trenches killing 20 enemies nearly single handedly to prevent a massacre of his men who were in the kill zone? Unlike Kamina or Archer his fight was against opponents that were more or less equal. He had neither mecha no magic, but only a rifle backed by guts.
As for the Prussian apathy towards the rise of that damned Austrian Corporal bear in mind that Haans von Seekct took great pains to ensure that the Reichswehr remained apolitical in character. The only reason why Hindenberg even appoint the corporal chancellor was because Franz von Papen, thinking that he could control the corporal, convinced the senile old warrior to do it. The Austrian corporal and his party of nut cases controlled a third of the seats in the Reichstag so it was impossible to have a government without them unless they used and abused rule by presidential decree. The only time the Wehrmarcht actually though of staging a coup was when the Corporal was about to seize parts of Czechoslovakia and take Austria. Prussians like Canaris and Beck were already moving towards having a putsch to avert war. However Appeasement happened and there was no popular support for any military overthrow had it happened as the Corporal was now a man whose genius was beyond question. It’s hard to fault the old Prussian Officer Caste for not taking action when the Corporal decided to play by the rules. We must not forget that when the Corporal tried to seize power violently it was the Reichswehr that crushed the Beer Hall Putsch.
The Corporal had many enemies within the Prussian Old Guard, Kurt von Schleicher had frustrated him for years. True they were for the most part apathetic, but even after their failure to keep the Nazi rabble in check guys like Wilhelm Canaris did what they could to save the Jews from the camps. Some of these guys even died for it. The Corporal was viewed in his time as a hero that’s why he was able to come to power. The Wehrmacht was gutted of the Prussian Old Guard by the outbreak of the war, these men if they had any misgivings politically kept silent even if they secretly undermined the efforts of the Corporal and his SS cronies. In the end they were all considered politically unreliable and subordinated to the SS. Unlike most of the population that would never dare talk back to the Corporal on matters of Strategy the heirs of the Prussian officer caste wasted no time in table pounding and disparaging the Corporal whenever he made insane demands or gave daft orders.
The lack of any significant actual putsch was rather a mark of not only their utter contempt for the democratic process but also their rigid discipline and adherence to principle. A military coup may have been preferable in their case, but military coups are very dangerous things as can be seen in the case of Burma and Pakistan. The Corporal and his SS rowdies were elected given the ignorance of how evil they really were, would a military overthrow in the 1930s have been acceptable?
One of the reasons why the General Staff, while known for its operational brilliance, was never gifted with strategic vision because their only job was to destroy the enemy, what happens after would be a purely civilian matter. Surrounded in a sea of evil it was better to be apathetic and do what they could than to be brave and die in vain. Canaris did much as chief of the Abwehr to frustrate the Corporal and the SS in giving Jews token training as agents and saving some MI 6 operatives. To ask them to mutiny would have just replicated the conditions of 1919. They may have been incapable of handing the Allies a quick victory but they did try and mitigate the plight of those who could not defend themselves. For every Prussian who saw the Corporal as a means of national salvation from the greater evil of communism there was another who remained in utter contempt.
For over 200 years these men carried on the tradition that the army serves the state when the state fell into the hands of madmen it is hard for us to demand that they all turn back on 200 years of distinguished service. It was Ludendorff who spat at the senile Hindenburg that, “By appointing Hitler Chancellor of the Reich, you have handed over our sacred German Fatherland to one of the greatest demagogues of all time. I prophesy to you this evil man will plunge our Reich into the abyss and will inflict immeasurable woe on our nation. Future generations will curse you in your grave for this action.” This was when at least most of the German people thought that the Corporal was still an okay guy just like most of the world in the 1930s. We have 20/20 hindsight all these men had was 200 years of tradition and an oath to never step into politics.
Unlike the Japanese situation the Prussian Officer Caste was at least able to save a few Jews based on rather a modern values in an age where hating the Jews was still okay. All this while the Gestapo was running about freely! We can question their morals, but we can never question their dedication to their people, their loyalty to their nation, or their courage.
As to the Issue of Meisters vs Shoujos, having a mecha turns what ever war they fight into a point and click adventure though the only option is to use mecha on nameless expendable peon. In shoujo the foes are not always nameless. To me to save all is better than to save only those you care about while damning the remaining millions to death. It is foolish to enlist without realizing that you and those your serve with are indeed expendable, it is neither fair nor right but such is the way of things when war comes; after all you did sign up for this. There is a reason why soldiers who abandon civilians are decried as cowards, as soldiers are expected to defend those who cannot defend themselves. I fail to recall an instance of actual crippling or maiming in a Gundam series for a long time, sure there is the token brutality but it is always on the peons not the mains. If mecha pilots were Achilles then Shoujos would be Hector. Besides as a military man I give more respect to those who use more indirect approaches to solve their problems than simple brute force like Gundam Jesus. War in anime is funny thing mecha just glorifies it while shoujo ignores it. I prefer the latter to the former as the former encourages a flawed view of a brutal exercise in politics through other means.
Sure a mecha pilot may think that the truce is going to solve everything but it just postpones the coming conflict allowing both sides to rearm. Clausewitz once stated, “Kind-hearted people might of course think there was some ingenious way to disarm or defeat the enemy without too much bloodshed, and might imagine this is the true goal of the art of war. Pleasant as it sounds, it is a fallacy that must be exposed: war is such a dangerous business that the mistakes which come from kindness are the very worst.” Sure the treaty of Versailles ended the war, but was it better in the long run? Sure the Union could have let the Confederacy go off on its merry way, it would have spared many men, but what of Slavery? Sure it was not an initial goal but it was ended at Appomattox. China could have let Japan conquer everything without much bloodshed, but would have been living as a slave with your womenfolk carried off daily to the bed of some Jap bastard acceptable? Death is horrible but for your average mecha pilot it seems that a life of slavery is preferable to death if only so that you might live to change the conqueror’s mind…
Shoujos for the most part do not engage in the brutality of war however, love is a war of sorts. Much of the same principles apply including the fact that there is no second place. Besides after Queen Beryl was vanquished she was never a threat again, but not so with Zaft, or Zeon.
@IKnight
I have yet to hear about great Prussian chess players, their profession was war and they preferred to hold actual maneuvers and military exercises rather than mastering chess like that pretender Lulu.
@usagijen
AMEN! Less Sumeragis; more Somas and Katies!
@Gravmech
Forever fresh and fluffy? Perhaps, but not all microbes are capable of being seen or talking…
@DrmChsr0
If I recall correctly Zeon was still a threat and that pedophile Char was still going about creating war and misery. Sure the 8th MS team was commendable, but few yet remain who remember their deeds. However long after Prussia has died men will still know their deeds and seek their wisdom. What Shiro did in one Year the Prussians did in 10 months and their victory was far more lasting (Franco Prussian War). Only by the sacking of Bismarck was their victory undone.
Indeed the Prussians were indeed amoral though Frederick the Great was far more tolerant than his contemporaries. Morals don’t win wars discipline does!
@Impz
I see Calawain and Extrange have been inducting you into the pantsu way.
Hey Calawain would you stop waving your hands around like your a Jedi or something, you know that only works on certain kinds of people…
@Slightly Bald Wizard
In 1995 I was in the fifth grade touring Hong Kong with my new Gameboy and a copy of an Illustrated Guide to Allied Fighters of WWII. I was then blissfully ignorant of that cowardly tart Shinji and his necrophilia.
As to Prussian-esque, Legend of the Galactic Heroes was suitably Prussian in overtones, sadly there has not been another since then…
You may enjoy this essay about John Boyd, who will likely go down in history as another man who had a profound effect on the Art of War. (Part one is great. Part 2 delves into some current events, and thus, has a bit of politics in it.)
It’s not surprising to me that shoujo are often more manly than most male leads. A lot of shoujo deals with the concept if personal empowerment. Young heroines are given the tools to go above and beyond their current status, and do great things. The flaw they’re forced to overcome is usually simple timidity.
It’s almost the opposite with male leads in anime. They’re often completely incompitent, rife with flaws, or often both. It’s one of the things that disturbed me somewhat in Kamina’s characterization. His bombastic behavior is so over-the-top, it overwhelms those scenes where we get to see the thinking man inside of him. I’m not entirely convinced Simon’s and Yoko’s visions of Kamina in episode 26 are only memories of him bubbling to the surface. The scene with Yoko says a lot more about Kamina with no words than all the “Who the hell do you think we are?” lines scattered throughout the show.
Well dammit. Something ate my spoiler tag.
So the questions now are:
1) Is manliness dead in Japan?
2) What’s the point of “personal empowerment” when it’s aimed towards the females and not the males in the audience?
3) Is there manliness left on this planet? Outside of Japan?
Crusader lost me with the comment to Calawain, after the word “Rommel”..
O_O
1) Is manliness dead in Japan?
2) What’s the point of “personal empowerment” when it’s aimed towards the females and not the males in the audience?
3) Is there manliness left on this planet? Outside of Japan?
I wouldn’t say manliness is dead (in Japan or anywhere else for that matter), but in 1st world countries, it’s certainly on the defensive. Men-being-men and boys-being-boys are treated like devolved brutes in need of ridicule or medication. Simple chivalry can get you branded a chauvinist.
We’re supposed to be giving up concepts like honor, duty, pride, and adventure, for sensitive metrosexuality. (Drop a copy of Gurren Lagann off at your nearest Womyn’s Studies department, and watch the fireworks.) Things have mellowed a bit, but that’s why for a long time you saw the Vagina Monlogues tauted as Womyn roaring in the face of the evil Patriarchy, while in any given TV ad you had a 50/50 chance that the male characters would come across as hairless apes barely able to tie their own shoes.
“2) What’s the point of “personal empowerment” when it’s aimed towards the females and not the males in the audience?”
LOL. That’s right, those lowly females should know their place. Empowerment is too good for them.
This article and the comments after it made me lol.
I, for one, have superior tastes and refuse any anime that has non-experience-enhancing fanservice.
lololololololol.
@Will
The John Boyd article was quite informative I actually learned a few things despite the fact that the development of jet fighters is a personal interest. As to the issue of the decline of manliness I think that its not as bad as you say and besides i have seen many a fucktastophe be two men having a a manly competition. It’s not so much that it is being shunned but rather society expects it to be more subtle. After all the Spartans were famous for appearing docile and provincial only to make a single cutting remark to remind their fellow Greeks that they were still but children.
I agree that shoujo is about one plucky otome embarking on a quest to become overall better as opposed to male protagonists who are horribly flawed and inept and stay that way.
@Slightly Bald Wizard
In response to number two, women have always been smarter than men and are less weighed down by ego and machismo.
As to 3, since when was Japan the land of manliness? Last I heard the sorry sops are begging their women folk to help them breed and they have opted to go hunt whales instead of something that can fight back. Besides what do you expect from a blue balled gaming population that has anorexic women pretending to be men as heroes in RPGs?
Nay manliness will survive where ever there are men who offer honor and blood to volk and fatherland!
@Impz
Don;t they teach you conscripts about notable military commanders or all gun monkeys ignorant everything except firing tables.
@Maelstrom
Kudos that was punchy, sharp, and cutting.
@korosora
Your taste can only be good or bad, never superior. Enjoy “In the Name of the King: A Dungeon Siege Tale”, comrade.
“Seriously now your average shoujo heroine is actually the model of Prussian values”
Oh the paradox…………but I am not really suprised.The whole post was hilarious.
I actually agree, I often find female characters more respecable than the useless male lead.Even the psychotics are more intresting(ex:Flay>Kira).
@Zeuslrae: That said, might I say that female characters who are good strong leads tend to be very GAR, like Shuurei from Saiunkoku Monogatari and Rahzel from Hatenkou Yuugi.
Rock on, GARWOMEN!
@Crusader
While I have a decent amount of knowledge of the topic area I really do not have the depth at that subject area as you do. So I really cannot give you a sufficient response. What I will say as that the main point I was trying to make was that there is something distinctively different in individual manliness and GAR of most anime characters and tactical genius. I wasn’t trying to say that those Prussians and their descendants did not earn their stripes in the trenches so to speak, but that battlefield heroics are different. I can’t really say that one who goes out there and risks personal death is less manly than the commanders who order him to do such.
@DrmChsr0
Being a good soldier to me is about having morals. Blindly following orders is not being a good soldier to me.
@Impz
Yeah some people have a natural prejudice and bias against fanservice from the start which I really don’t understand. People get so fixated on things like that that they can miss the other merits of the show. One could say that Dragonaut is terrible because of the fanservice but I would hope you could look beyond that and see that the show is terrible for so many other reasons.
@Slighly Bald Wizard
Japan was never known for a raging hive of manliness after the end of WWII so it really doesn’t come into consideration. Second, men have been the dominant gender of society since the dawn of time, there is little need for “male empowerment.” There is still rampant need for “female empowerment” because we are still a long way from equality. Japan is particular has horrid, horrid gender inequality with massive pay and job differences along with a general societal view of women.
@Will
The treatment of men-being-men as brutish is part of the larger backlash against the overly male dominated society we live in. It’s a common sociological event when a formerly dominant and overpowering behavior is being attacked that a general view against that behavior comes about. And to be honest I don’t really think it’s that much of a bad thing. Furthermore, in today’s world I think there is nothing wrong with rational though and deliberation being more successful than brute force and other such methods.
@ Calawain
While I agree that Japan does need a lot more work in regards to women’s status in society, I’m also of the opinion that in other parts of the 1st world, we’re near if not past the point of diminishing returns for proactive feminine empowerment, and that further proactive efforts could be counter-productive and function as little more than piling-on.
@Will
And I would dispute that. While we have made significant gains since the start of the feminist/women’s rights movement here in the US, it is still far from equal. Various studies still show significant pay disparities for the same job between men and women. High level management in just about every field is still dominated by men. In the fields I’m the most familiar with–politics, academia, and the legal profession–males vastly outnumber females in both pure numbers, power, and importance. So we still have awhile to go before we can say the returns no longer outweigh the costs of pushing equality.
By the way Japan is leagues behind the US in gender equality, if you want a brief overview of one area of the problem you can read it here.
And I would like to agree, but I don’t think the promotion of feminine equality needs to be paired with the denegration of men and masculinity. I’d much rather see women and men both portrayed in a positive and truly equal light than the promotion of feminine superiority. A high-tide raises all ships etc..
I can’t remember where I heard it last, but it comes up every once in a while that Japan lags the US by about 20 years in just about everything except engineering/technology. That’s a bit over-broad, but it carries a small kernel of truth in some areas. The rampant pedophilia and harrasment problem is particularly worrisome.
This is starting to range far afield of the original topic. Politics is for other places.
To the original question.
Sheer fanservice has put me off several series; it weakens characters and shows complete lack of respect to all involved. Nothing wrong with a beach scene or something of the sort, but when it has to be rampant in every episode it gets annoying.
Another is the stupidity of characters. It’s all very nice if trying to portray an innocent character, or to show that they’re lazy. But characters getting extrememly low scores on tests happens in nearly every manga and anime I see. Also, there are very few people in the world dense enough to NOT catch the tricks people get away with in anime– piteous disguises, being forgiven even when they’ve been a complete bastard just because they said they were sorry, etc. I’m not asking for realism, but a little effort wouldn’t hurt.
Let me repeat the gist of my reply, Calawain.
To put it simply, it’s not about whether you accept your orders or not (and in Kyosuke’s opinion, you have to do the former), but it’s how you intepret and execute your orders that matters.
Unfortunately, in the army, not following orders is an infraction punishable by court-martial. You have to follow orders, no matter what you do. HOW you interpret those orders and HOW
@ZeusIrae
Yeah Yanderes are infinitely more manly than the typical male lead, after all they actually move the plot and get shit done.
@Impz
Intelligence is manly, stupidity is not.
@Calawain
Understood, but I have to say, “Sweat saves blood, blood saves lives, brains save both.” It is the latter that most anime males seem to be thoroughly lacking.
@Linya
To borrow a bit of Rommel wisdom, “Avoid excessive use of fanservice or clumsiness, for this usually indicates that the director has shortcomings of his own to hide.”
I agree animeland seems to be most lacking in men and women of wisdom these days.
Since I am also an admirer of German culture and mentality, I have to agree that the Germans and Prussians are models of what true men are in terms of discipline, courage, resourcefulness and resolve. Hell, I am a fan of the German national soccer team and of Bayern Munich (of course after my own country’s team) since I believe the way they play exhibits the same qualities, though they are often scorned by most soccer fans since they say they play “ugly football”.
Also, I have to say that compared to a strategist like Bismarck, Lelouch seems like nothing more than a high-school honors student (which he actually is).
However, on the issue of anime males in general I have to strongly disagree. I can see where you are coming from, since there have been some really bad ones lately (I don’t need to mention names), but it is just those few that give anime men a bad name. In general I watch shows which have strong anime male leads who exhibit many of the qualities the Germans/Prussians possess. Your arguments why characters like Kamina/Archer are not manly seem pretty general at best, so I can’t take them to heart.
On the issue of the “manliness” of shoujo heroines…I’m sorry, I also disagree. It is true that there are some select few who possess some pretty manly qualities, but most of them are pretty vain and obsessed with “love” (or should I say – high-school crushes) and other trivial matters instead of concentrating on their goals. Most characters who live to follow a dream and work towards it are men, there is no doubt about that. It’s not that women cannot do that, it’s just that there are very few in anime that seem to exist.
See, like you grew up reading about German military leaders, I grew up reading Greek and Scandinavian mythology and later – fantasy literature and listening to power metal bands and all of those deal with brave honorable heroes who live and fight for the glory of their name. I see the same qualities they possess in many anime male leads nowadays, so that’s why I cannot agree with you that manliness is dead in anime.
Also, on the subject of who is smarter, I agree that men generally are more obsessed with their egos, but women are often ruled by their emotions instead of by reason, so I cannot agree that they are smarter than men for this very reason. I don’t think you can claim that one gender is smarter than the other, but from what I know the smartest people, the greatest minds in the world are mostly men, but also the stupidest people are also men.
Finally, on the issue of fanservice, I agree that excess of it is pretty stupid and I also tend to avoid shows that center on it. However, when it is used in moderation and done tastefully, I think it can make a show more attractive.
@DrmChsr0
Indeed creative interpretation keeps the court martial away.
@Darklord
Yeah Bismarck was a one crafty statesman, though I hope that Lulu while a lesser man will have a greater fall than poor old Otto.
Genius is very democratic it strikes without reagard to gender. However success is quite another thing genius failures ar often dubbed as “mad.”
Still I have to say that shoujo do exhibit very Prussian values when working tireless for love. For is it not true that in love and war that all is fair, despite not all being right? I would argue that like war in love there is no room for second place, or is there a substitute for victory. It is also true that in love she who hesitates is lost. In the rough and tumble of daytos love is indeed a matter of expedients.
Courtship does involve many of the same principles that apply in conducting of a campaign. In love each individual date requires tactics to ensure that things go smoothly, Operational Art is required to ensure that the logistical means for making the date possible are in place, and finally grand strategy is required to ensure that a string of successful dates do not get wasted and that every failed date is somehow mitigated. Is it not also true that in love like war that the ultimate goal is to compel the boyfriend to fulfill an otome’s will?
Sure the goals maybe simpler but they are nonetheless not won by the timid. Besides shoujo goals are much more realistically attainable. Anime males tend to aim for the stars and then promptly fail to get beyond their doorsteps. After all how many one year wars have been fought since 0079? Besides how much more warlike can you get when shoujos besiege their objects of affection forcing them to either surrender, sally, or wait fruitlessly for relief. It also helps that they bombard their targets with affection…
3 Trackbacks
[...] NS wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerpt… how we were, and what things we hold in utter contempt. Here are a few of my many prejudices hopefully it will serve some use to explain why I am taking up True Tears and why even men can find panty shots a bit off putting… [...]
[...] Otaku Pride and Prejudice: Panties are biohazards, and Shoujo is Manly Truly GAR. No matter what Crusader says. EDIT: Its not Shoujo GAR your green haired trap! So during my fruitless efforts to sit through Rosario + Vampire without sighing or trying to gouge out my eyes I began to ponder more deeply my … [...]
[...] panties but about the portrayal of panties; real ones are, as Crusader has recently and eloquently pointed out, often [...]