The character most prominent in my mind after watching CLANNAD 24 is Tomoya. Is writing for Impz finally having an effect on me?
Sure, the episode has made me like Tomoyo more (a lot more, in fact), as she gets more screentime and we well and truly see what she’s like. The art is still as beautiful as ever, and though I’ve seen people complain about the animation I didn’t notice anything peculiar. There is no Fuuko, which is a blessing. None of the rest of the cast, apart from Sunohara, got to make an appearance either, but with this sort of time constraint I can’t complain. But in the end I still thought mostly about Tomoya. OMG DID I CATCH TEH GHEY?!
Ahem. Of course not, I was more interested in how Tomoyo and Nagisa respectively affected Tomoya. Totally not gay.
So, even though I liked the Tomoya in the main body of the series, I could not bring myself to like this Tomoya. This Tomoya is a weakling. He doesn’t display the strength or the activeness of the Tomoya during the rest of the show, and this makes him infinitely less likeable. I got to wondering… is this who Tomoya really is? Or rather, is this who Tomoya was, before he met Nagisa?
The Nagisa-Tomoya was a strong person who would act and get things done. He would strive to achieve much, and did achieve much, for the sake of Nagisa. This pathetic and apathetic Tomoyo-Tomoya(-Tomoye-Tomoyi-Tomoyu…) is an eyesore. There is nothing left of the man after Tomoyo was taken away, just as he was when he left himself with nothing after his shoulder was injured.
In my mind, Nagisa’s effect on Tomoya is much more positive. Nagisa lacked strength, so he became her strength, and in the end they made each other stronger. Whereas with T-Tomoya, because Tomoyo herself is such a strong person, Tomoya remained stationary and did not grow as a person, and as a result he did not have the strength to stand up to the pressure against their relationship.
I hate this kind of relationship, and more so I hate this kind of break-up. The same thing happened in I”s (the manga – there IS no I”s anime), where Ichitaka was forced to break up with Iori because it would affect her image as an idol. Though it made for spectacularly touching finale, as it did here, I don’t like relationships where the couple has to make pointless sacrifices.
I know some people think that this kind of relationship is more beautiful, but they are only beautiful if they succeed (some people like them even if they fail – I can’t share that sentiment). I feel that if Tomoya was simply a stronger person, he could’ve put up more resistance and showed that the relationship could work. It’s not like his being a delinquent was something that couldn’t be changed. He showed that he could become a better person after he broke up with Tomoyo, but as he said himself, it’s a little late. It caused them both months of misery, and if Tomoyo is not as strong as she is, their relationship could very well have ended in complete failure.
If it was N-Tomoya, he might’ve told the teacher that he would study hard and become a better person so that their relationship would not become a problem for Tomoyo. Similarly, he would not have been made speechless by that student council member, because N-Tomoya is much more confident of himself.
I have always liked Nagisa more (don’t ask me why, I like weird girls?), and if I factor in the effect of Nagisa and Tomoyo on Tomoya (the dynamics of a couple mean as much to me as each individual character), then it’s clear to me that Nagisa is the better choice, both for the anime and for Tomoya.
NAGISA BANSAI! \o/
P.S. SUCK ON THAT TOMOYO FANS. Watching your OVA only made me like Nagisa more! HAHA!
26 Comments
I just have one thing to say about you.
You are gay. GAY! HA HA HA!
There is an I”S anime. It’s just not very faithful to the manga.
Nagisa is wiin! <33!!!
kyo fujibayashi…
@Rail Driver: I think that there is NO I’S anime. It’s just like there is no GSG2 anime. I am still waiting for the sequel. Bloody Artland.
I agree complete with pretty much everything said. Especially that last line, oh did I fall off my chair laughing. As it usually is, the main heroine gets the lest attention from fans. This isn’t usually the case with Key works but Nagisa seems to be an exception. That’s why Nagisa/Tomoya lovers need to stick together.
Although, I’m left wondering… even if Nagisa makes Tomoya strong isn’t it not real strength? He ends up breaking down to his weak state so that he cannot even support or take care of his daughter. It’s understandable… what he went through was horrible but it makes him no better than being with Tomoyo, he reverts to the weak person he always was when he has someone to take care of and love. Someone needs him and he can’t do anything for them because he’s wallowing in his own self pity. (Or maybe I’m just babbling stupid talk…)
Nagisa X Ryou should have been properly realized by KyoAni. T_T
Impz – Hahaha. Don’t worry, I understand now. When I first read through Lupus’s post, I missed the sarcasm lol.
Can’t all the fancamps just get along?
good points all around… in this world Tomoya is a bit of an apathetic loser – the only thing he has going for him is his relationship with Tomoyo. I dont know that it was Nagisa that drove him though. All the girls took turns in the main arc keeping his sorry ass in line – eg i cant imagine a Kotomi-ized Tomoya would be much different from the Nagisa one – but only if all the other girls are there to push him. Clannad is all about family – and one way or another *each* of the girls in the primary story becomes part of his extended family. Without them they’ve made him somewhat listless – whether that’s a fair vision of what a Tomoya future would be like or not.
All you get in life are the people around you… and without them, well, there are a lot less starfish.
I really enjoyed this episode – as much as my fave eps from earlier on in the series in fact. In my review (I really hope the link worked there) I suggested it would work as a stand-alone story but I hadn’t thought about how Tomoya reacts to various situations differently, depending on the girl he was dating; so cheers for a great review showing me that extra angle!
In the Nagisa scenario, he has to protect her, while in the Tomoyo scenario he’s aspiring to being someone better. In this case I agree that he doesn’t show any of the strength he showed Nagisa…because his girl is strong on her own. But then, he puts her interests first and breaks up with her in order to prevent him holding her back. In a way, this episode is Tomoya trying to make himself worthy of his girl, and at one point going as far as breaking up with her to allow her to fulfil her potential.
It’s a different sort of strength I think, and a less obvious one. Maybe the lack of ‘obviousness’ of what Tomoya has to do and be is what makes him come across as wimpier. In both scenarios, we see a more motivated and caring side of him appear – the difference in how this happens is what makes this episode so interesting.
Of course, I was longing for a bit of Tomoyo screentime since she didn’t get the attention she deserved in eps 1-23…plus there’s my affinity for the tsundere thing which I sooo don’t want to go into right now. ^_^
HAHAHA THE TRAP CALLED YOU GAY!
Tomoya was more humane here IMO. I don’t like Tomoyo that much but I still like her better then Nagisa. That ep was probably the best ep of the show.
Well, I agree with you on some points and disagree with you on others, first of all I like the Nagisa/Tomoya paring the best. When Tomoya and Nagisa are together they make each other a better person, they almost embody the spirit of the “you complete me” movie line.
But as I said in my review of this episode the point is not to compare Tomoya/Nagisa vs Tomoya/Tomoyo, the point of this episode is pure fan service. A fan who has played the game or watched the series knows that Nagisa and Tomoya are tied together by the red string of fate, so the entire OAV episode is pure fan service for Tomoyo fans.
After all Tomoyo can be seen as the ultimate tsundere girl for fans of those types of girls. The tougher than nails girl who can kick any guys ass, but if you make the right connection she’ll melt in your hand like butter.
But I disagree with you about Tomoya being a wimp in the OAV, his reaction to the pressure to break up Tomoyo is more realistic for Asian culture. All the fans that wanted them to say screw you to all the teachers and other students are looking at the situation from the American/Western perspective of “love conquers all”. But, at the end it all worked out, Tomoya’s no longer in school and Tomoyo got her goal so it no longer matters what the others think.
Chris: Jason Miao would disagree with you… But then again, him and I disagree on stuff as well, so it’s all good.
I’d like to point out the fact that, while the OAV paints Tomoya in a better light (even after the breakup, he still makes an effort not to revert back into deliquency), in the actual game he breaks down. HARD. It’s pretty pathethic, which is why I echo the observation that the Tomoya in the ‘Tomoyo’ path seems less likeable than, oh, the one we see in Kotomi’s or Nagisa’s paths.
Although I’m not really a Nagisa fan, I do think that (after working through all the other paths) she seems the most *right* for Tomoya. Every other girl, barring possibly Kotomi, Mei, or Yukine, have personality traits that rub me the wrong way.
Mind you, I’m not the type of person these games were made for (female, well-adjusted, educated and working professionally, NOT into moe), so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
LOL
Actually, after this, I had a hard time thinking Tomoya could ever be the dominant one in a relationship. I think it’s because Tomoyo has such a strong personality (not to mention – she can kick some ass). I could honestly imagine Tomoyo being on the top during sex. I liked seeing the more sensitive sides to Tomoya in this.
As for Nagisa, Tomoya was portrayed as a much stronger character. But I think it’s because of how Nagisa’s personality/character was like.
I really liked this episode though. Tomoya/Tomoyo ftw!
Oh, I get it. There is no I”s anime because in reality it’s a steaming piece of turd? So bad that one had to disavowed the existence of such a travesty?? =P
@ CrstalliqueFairy (2 posts above)
If ur the scum of the school and ur dating the school idol, wouldn’t you feel pressured and lower your self esteem?
Gotta represent the Nagisa. <3
Impz: Go away :’(
Rail Driver: Yeah. I refuse to admit it exists.
Midenz: damn right!
h
Rollchan: I only like her with her thigh-high/boomer combo. That thing is overpowered.
Fang-tan: I don’t know anything about that. Is that in After Story?
C.J.: I would totally have gone that route if it exists.
Quint: I don’t think most of us would miss the starfish, but you’re right. We are who we are surrounded by.
Martin: I wonder about that. Is it strength to give up your (and possibly her) happiness for the sake of your lover? Is it better for her to be successful but without love? It actually reminds me a little bit of Honey and Clover, where in the end Hagu chose Hanamoto-sensei, because to her, Art is more important than Love. In that case Hagu is the one making the choice, but is it right for Tomoya to choose the metaphorical Art for Tomotyo?
I just feel that it’s possible to achieve both at the same time – not give her up and yet not hold her back. I agree though, that giving her up is a difficult choice to make and not something that just anyone can do, and in that sense Tomoya is showing a a kind of strength. I just don’t think it’s the optimal scenario (but then how often is the optimal scenario carried out in real life?)
Chris: It might be the more socially acceptable thing, but that doesn’t mean it’s right. Tomoya could’ve done more. I’m not asking him to lash out at the people who are trying to break them up, but I would like to see him change himself, and through action show that those people are wrong – “See, I am not holding her back.”
Myssa Rei: No, I think it’s good to get the opinions of someone outside of the target audience. The neutral perspective often offers far more interesting ideas and points
Nagisa might be a better match for Tomoya, but that was a low blow, jerk.
you suck big time! tomoyo is better than nagisa. jerk
GRR. Tomoyo > Nagisa, you son of a bitch. Cant you see, its an alternate story? Both paths lead to stronger Tomoya characters, its just that they did it with on episode. I shit on you sir.
Several months late since I just kind of stumbled onto this blog looking for something else, but if that’s how you feel Tomoyo affected Tomoya perhaps it’s time to revisit Key’s work. Not to mention the fact that there is a Tomoyo After storyline that’s been made into a separate game, but to each his own. Fact is, Episode 24 is paints a more complete image of Clannad and let one of the other main female protagonists take the screentime they deserve (too bad it doesn’t include any others), and probably stays truer to Key’s Clannad than any episode so far (though parts of Key’s Clannad was funny KyoAni took it WAY too far).
ps The core concept behind Clannad isn’t even romance @ whoever that pointed it out.
i really think is better kotomi-chan ^^
then tomoyo or kyou well thats my idea XD
“In my mind, Nagisa’s effect on Tomoya is much more positive. Nagisa lacked strength, so he became her strength, and in the end they made each other stronger. Whereas with T-Tomoya, because Tomoyo herself is such a strong person, Tomoya remained stationary and did not grow as a person, and as a result he did not have the strength to stand up to the pressure against their relationship.”
A point well made. Personally I’m a Tomoyo fan but I cannot deny that Nagisa and Tomoya is the better pair.
P.S. Just realised this is very old and therefore this post is probably useless.
tomoya is not huging nagisa… cause the girl he’s huging is not even nagisa. look at the girls hair its light blonde or white something… nagisa’s hair is brown… right? and i think tomoyo and the girl in the pics are just friends. but the girl loves tomoyo more than everything.but tomoyo have no feeling to the girl [just friends]
xxx: do you want sexy animes? go to GOOGLE IMAGES, then type SEXY ANIME SEX or SEXY ANIME GIRLS
( animes there are sometimes naked, no bras or panties, NUDE! sweet, right? )
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