I’ll comfort you C.C.
Well ladies and gentlemen, it’s finally over. It’s been quite the journey and I’m kind of glad it’s over because at times it was exhausting to spend so much time on it each week. Anyways, this post is limited to discussion of the episode itself, not the entire series. I’ll make a separate post reviewing the series as a whole, so please do your best to focus your comments on the contents of this episode. There’s plenty to talk about with just the final scene so I think it will be alright~
Her eyes look much less creepy this time around, and she looks much more moe. Not sure whether it just took them an episode to find the right proportions or they were just going for shock value last episode. He initially opposes using geass on her to bend her will, but as we find out in a few minutes, using the geass in the end wouldn’t be bending her will very much.
11…lol
I am satisfied with the final battle here between Kallen and Suzaku, there was a good amount of solid action one on one. No tech gimmicks, no keikkau doori, just mano-a-womano fighting. Looks like they saved some budget for the final fight too, it didn’t disappoint.
These lines show that Nunally was thinking of the same thing as Lelouch, to focus the world’s hate on one thing. Lelouch saw that she was now strong enough to think on her own and could entrust her with helping to shape the world. It also allowed him to be able to geass her, because in the end their objectives were the same. Lelouch wanted to focus the world’s hate on himself, and Nunally on Damocles and presumably, herself.
Mmmm…geass moe
That’s it guys, there is officially nobody more badass than Orange-kun. The guy ejects a knightmare out of the Siegfried to go after her, blows it up on top of Mordred, and then he himself leaps out and lands on top of it. This guy is my fucking hero. As for Anya’s memories though, I thought they said she already got them back? I guess they weren’t all the way unlocked? Side materials please.
Some shots of badassery for the road.
You know you’re ass is lame when the cat is the only one at your grave.
Interesting juxtaposition
I find it rather amusing that the first person to figure it out was Kallen, whom they’ve billed this season as a complete and total idiot. Apparently she can’t see through his plans for the past 10 episodes, but hey she gets it now before everyone else. Whee! You still destroyed her character Sunrise! I’m not bitter, really!
It’s good to see that Suzaku can still dodge bullets, as he’s been doing since season one. He is definitely the reincarnation of Kira “Jesus” Yamato, because not only does he dodge bullets but he comes back from supposed death.
Some serious homolust vibes in these scenes, but that’s to be expected. Overall I think they did the setup for Lelouch’s death scene pretty well, I wasn’t blown away but I wasn’t disappointed either. They could have made it extremely lame, but instead opted for something a bit more traditional.
Nunally’s geass of mind reading or convenient plot device for Lelouch’s redemption is his sister’s eyes? You decide!
I actually will admit I got choked up here for Nunally. I know I’ve railed on her a lot lately, mostly because of the writing of her character, but I still have an emotional attachment. Nunally’s wailing wasn’t all that bad either, it didn’t make me cringe or anything like that. I also enjoyed how once again Taniguchi was reaching back to previous episodes to parallel current ones. Lelouch dying in Nunally’s arms while the world shouts “Zero!” draws from Euphemia’s death in episode 23 of season one, which is one of the top 5 anime episodes of all time.
Prime Minister? Are you fucking kidding me? Prime Minister? The guy is a complete idiot how could he lead anything effectively? For Christ’s sake. And Tamaki running a bar…that’s fucking lol.
Man, half of these people should be dead, including the bride and the groom. Conspicuously absent is Xing Ke, who presumably died from his blood coughing illness. I’m also lolling at “nani mai hanni?” being included at the wedding.
Wait for it…
YES FUCK YES, fanart comes to life! Orange-kun as an orange farmer with Anya of all people. I really fell out of my chair here, for obvious reasons. It’s really unfortunate though that it wasn’t a Orange x Meido end, I didn’t see her anywhere in the epilogue. I do see some Orange x Anya doujins incoming though, they could be strangely arousing. Hey, maybe Sayoko and Orange adopted Anya, that would be the best ending of all imo.
Alright, well here’s my main problem with this episode. Before we get to my rant, let’s lay out the issues here regarding whether or not Lelouch is dead. One can think about C.C.’s intonation and inflection and try to compare it with how she spoke with Marianne in the past. You can also consider whether she tilted her head back to look up to the sky (which is where you look when you talk to dead people it seems) or to the unknown guy driving the cart. As for the origami, it would be pretty strange for C.C. to keep it as a memento to Nunally since she’s not dead and she’s not her sister, it’s more likely that it’s something Lelouch would have kept as a memento. You also should consider the many many ways in which people have survived certain death in this show- Sayoko, Guilford (lol, in Lelouch’s death scene they even gave the guy a gun, isn’t he blind?), Nunally, Cornelia, etc. Plus there are plenty of options available, most prominently the code method, whether it was transferred before he went up to get himself “killed” or they did it after. They give lots of hints, and it’s something that I’m sure will be discussed a lot.
On to my rant. Basically, I hate this ending. I hate all such ambiguous endings, which is why I don’t like Eva. Eva would have been a good show were it not for the lame endings of the TV series and EoE. I don’t like ambiguous endings, I like solid endings that tell me what happens, I don’t want to interpret anything. Maybe Taniguchi was like, “hey I want to be like Anno so let’s make this B.S. ending so people will talk about it a lot and buy Geass DVDs!” Hey Taniguchi, I hate Anno, but I can say that you are no Anno. So fuck you Taniguchi, fuck you.
Other than that I was generally satisfied with the way it ended. There were plenty of opportunities for stupid plot twist endings, but they didn’t go that path and went for a more traditional and somewhat obvious one. It was frankly refreshing for it to end on a generally positive and clear end (with the obvious exception of Lelouch’s survival). Stay tuned over the next couple of days for a full series review which will take up an entirely new post.
Next Episode
One can only hope for some OVAs and side materials! Lot’s of loose ends are still around (C.C.’s name, the Knight of Nine, etc.) that can be talked about. As for the next season, I’m going to be co-blogging Gundam 00 with Crusader in a similar fashion to how he has contributed to my Geass posts. Aside from that I have no idea, I don’t think I can do 6 months of Clannad and I don’t have much spare time these days so I’ll probably pick up one of the lighter comedies. As for Nogizaka Haruka, expect an episode 12 and final review post this week.
Crusader’s Angry Drunken Rant
Because it’s fun.
Thus did Nunnally hand over her favorite vibrator to her dear onii-chan. Suzaku did like…
Nothing can come between their love…
Fuck yeah! Toast!
Wow well that was a lot of bullshit served along with the mecha fights though Todou pussied out in the end. I am very much glad that this is over Cornelia is still alive and still full of fight, Villeta is still carrying Ougi’s wehrbietrag, Lulu is dead, and all is for the most part well. Much homolust as Suzaku thrusted his swords of +69 penetration into Lulu, but at this point it can’t be helped. SuzakuxLulu ending confirmed…
Such a pity that Kallen didn’t run into any one with toast in her mouth I was giddy when I saw it as it would have finally resolved the debate of striped or strawberries. I can’t believe that Nani mai Hunni and Rivalz are so heavily hinted at being a couple but I guess air heads have an affinity for one another. I’d be lying if I said I cared any more but it over after watching this schlock I now have a much greater appreciation for Gundam 00, finally we can back to a series with an actual kill count going. Still my Cornelia-hime was just delicious.
You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know Cornelia-hime had no hand in making this war, and I know Cornelia-hime will make more sacrifices today than any of you to secure peace. But you cannot have peace and a division of our country. If Cornelian-Britannia submits to a division now, it will not stop, but will go on until we reap the fate of Africa, which is eternal war. Cornelian-Britannia does and must assert its authority, wherever it once had power; for, if it relaxes one bit to pressure, it is gone, and I believe that such is the national feeling.
The only people with a brain, how few yet remain…
…
What is it?
Look I know things between us didn’t work out…and about last night…
I just wanted to say that it’s alright and that I will always love you. I will never forget the time we had together, be safe beloved.
Ten years ago, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn’t commit. These men and women promptly escaped from a maximum-security stockade to the Tokyo underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem…if no one else can help…and if you can find them…maybe you can hire…The A-Team.
Best shot-gun wedding ever!
Make way for Prince Ali!
Say hey! It’s Prince Ali!
Hey! Clear the way of his taxi cab!
Hey you!
Let him through!
Or it’s you he’ll stab!
You don’t wanna be the first one to earn his ire!
Make way!
Here he comes!
Sound the bells! Load the guns!
‘Cause you’re gonna hate this guy!
Prince Ali! Murderous He!
Ali al-Sarshes
Kills for fun
Give him a gun
Then watch the spree!
Now Gundam pilots are dead.
And Saji’s sister’s vent-ed
‘Cause Ali’s sick in the head–Undoubtedly!
Prince Ali! Mighty is he!
Ali al-Sarshes!
Strong as ten regular men
Take it from me!
He faced the Thrones Trinity
Who’d make a saner man flee
But whos Gundam kill-count’s now three?
Why, Prince Ali!
He’s got so many shadowy backers
Private armies
But they’d work for free
When it comes to expensive mobile suits
Yeah he’s had a few,
I’m telling you,
It’s a world-wide conspiracy!
Prince Ali! Handsome is he!
Ali al-Sarshes!
That goatee! I wish it could be!
Closer to me!
Well, get on out in that square
Come steel your nerves and prepare!
To gawk and grovel and stare at Prince Ali!
He’s got ninety-five brown Kurdish jihad-kuns!
(He’s called the jihad, let’s fight the jihad)
And to join him he charges no fee!
(‘Cept your parents! Kill your parents!)
He bends nations to his will for fun!
(Proud to work for him)
They bow to his whim!
It’s best for them!
They’re just scared into loyalty to Ali!
Prince Ali!
Prince Ali!
The adversary! Ali al-Sarshes!
Mike Trinity, wishes that he, was half as crazy
Well he saw the Zwei and thought “Why,–I think I’ll give it a try.”
Next thing you know, Johan’s hit the floor,
He’s got beams, GN drives
And fang-oos galore!
Takes an alias, heads up to space,
And shows Sexy Lockon what for!
Can’t flee from Prince Ali!
206 Comments
the charles giving lelouch code theory is good and possible. But you have to remember something lelouch had to take or be given it and i highly doubt charles would pass his imortality to the son that just ruined his plans. And lelouch at the time cared little about his own life to steal the code. But none the less a good theory.
And with that theory its possible for both lulu and cc to live together forever
Once again, alluding back to the dark knight thing, if you think about it you could correlate many ideas that are similar with Code Geass.
Suzaku-Two Face(Zero(Hero)/Suzaku(Villain)
Lelouch-Batman
Just a thought
But yea I agree with Chaotic Reaper, Lelouch is alive. I would love to see an OVA that maybe sees into the future. If they could just make that CC x Lelouch official, I’d be glad. Before they come out with those OVAs if they make them, what to do?
Man I can’t believe I’m saying this considering I’m extremely against character resucitation, I mean if you’re going to go through the effort of killing a character then just do it geez, but I actually want lelouch to be alive I mean he’s just so cool and his death is to sad for a series that gave me such lulz =/
Please Sunrise since you’ve liked to mess with us mess with us and make a movie witha fantasy pony ending just for the fans. Lelouch’s death scene was the first time I’ve cried viewing anime (almost cried at euphy’s death because it was sad but I wasn’t really atached to that character). Lelouch’s death was the first time I’ve cried while viewing anime, I almost cried at euphy’s death because of the sadness of it but I wasn’t that emotionally atached to that character. Lelouch I will forever miss your extreme hand gestures while you talked and the dramatic flare you placed into everything you did you my friend should be the best drama writer in the world but alas now you’re in heaven watching your father burn in the depths of hell. T-T T-T T-T T-T T-T T-T T-T
@Zentari
Nice thinking , but it kinda falls apart when you realise that months didn’t pass with us watching, since the timeskip started right after his death (thus no one knows what happened, not me and certainly not you).
The point is, when someone who has received a Code dies they are immediately revived as was the case with C.C., V.V. and Charles. If Lelouch had received a Code from Charles he would’ve revived immediately after he ‘died’ during the Black Knights and Cornelia’s storming the parade.
You seem to believe if Lelouch lived, it must have been planned,which is not necessarily the case.On top of that we know next to NOTHING about the code: for all Lelouch knew, offing daddy could give him the ticket.The only part we seem to agree on is that you need to die to activate it.
What we do know about the code is that:
A. It must be either forcibly taken by someone or forced ONTO someone.
B. The only ‘candidate’ that people are positing that happening to was Charles.
I’ve already debunked the theory of Charles’ code passing onto Lelouch. No one can refute this. Charles certainly didn’t force it onto his greatest enemy and Lelouch had no reason or desire to take it. Immortality was not a part of Lelouch’s end-game strategy.
Also if Lelouch is dead ,how do you explain all those things that happened (Nunally seeing his memories etc.) and besides all that, why did they go out of their way to conceal the driver ?
Firstly, I don’t have to explain it. I’m not the writer of the show. It’s Geass, half of the show never made sense in the first place. Not all of the pieces are going to fit neatly into place as I’ve already noted the various open plot threads in my FIRST reply to this blog entry.
Secondly, Nunnally’s “ability” to see memories wasn’t limited to Lelouch. Nunnally has been able to tell whether or not people have lied to her by touching their hands for quite a few episodes now. The writers never explain how or why she can do that. AGAIN as I’ve already noted in my first post.
Her “seeing” Lelouch’s memories is not related to the code. At all. That’s just people grasping at straws. Most of the time when someone came into contact with a code (Anya, Suzaku, etc) they were momentarily stunned and had no memory or recollection of the moments immediately following the contact. This was not the case with Nunnally as she continued to bawl her eyes out and press herself into her dead Onii-sama’s chest.
Hell, it could have been a random old guy,but it wasn’t.
There’s no evidence to support that the cart driver is Lelouch.
It’s simply a delusional fantasy from fanboys who do not want to let go.
The cart driver does not have Lelouch’s Geass eyes or any other distinct features attributable to Lelouch. He also does not possess a Code and that’s the only way Lelouch would’ve been able to survive being impaled by a sword and bleeding to death in front of a crowd of people, including his own sister.
You are free to believe whatever you want, but you are standing on the same ground as us.From a neutral position, it could be either way.
I’m pretty sure they showed him on the floor bleeding to death. No one who has gone through that experience (Shirley, Diethard, etc) has survived this. Furthermore, they haven’t conclusively showed Lelouch reviving. This is speculation on the fans’ part due to the last 10 seconds of the show.
The entire basis for people even speculating Lelouch surviving is because C.C. tilts her head towards the sky a few degrees and utters a two-word Sentence.
Lelouch is alive.
Blog (Pics) :
http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2008/…
Blog (Explanation) :
http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2008/…
There’s other websites with good arguments about the Charles code thing.
Alive.
Blog (Pics) :
http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2008/…
Blog (Explanation) :
http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2008/…
Why, why did it end. Well was ok ending I guess but fuck you Sunrise now we have to buy that stupid DvD and soon code geass doujins will stop noooo!!!!!!!! Well w.e. Can’t wait till series post.
The ending for this series was pretty damn obvious once Rolo died. I completely foresaw Lelouch’s death…and I still cried my eyes out. I kept rewatching this over…and over…and everytime, I would cry. I would not stop. Though I have to say, the whole Suzaku being Zero thing was something I didn’t expect. Pretty damn sad and completely amazing. I love Lelouch’s smile when he’s about to die. He was all like “haha, my plan worked.” I kinda have to admit, it brought a little, tiny giggle out while I was crying. I really loved the way it ended though I hate ambigious endings. I like endings to be straight and clean where they fill in all the missing gaps. It’s pretty obvious there is no 3rd season (if they make one, I will go crazy) but I do hope there’s a OVA or something too. That’d be amazing!
I have to admit this was one of my favorite anime endings. This story was such an emotional roller coaster. At times I absolutely hated Lelouche and other times I was saying to myself “what a crafty bastard this guy is!”
The one thing that I did find completely unforgivable was bringing back Guilford…. I mean c’mon!!! The guy was disintegrated! I can kinda see Schneizel not killing his own sister and just aiming to disable her but Guilford?! WTF?!
*sigh* now that I have that out of my system lets get on to this Lelouch Alive or dead business.
I’ve probably watched the ending about 5 times now and analyzed it several times and between the telepathic memory transfer to nunnaly, Orange-Kun’s grinning reactions and C.C.’s final words I think it’s pretty obvious that Lelouch is alive.
I also think it’s pretty obvious that C.C. gave lelouch her code so that he could pull it off. Because if you go back to the previous episode she told him to make sure he upholds his promise to have her “die with a smile”.
I think that right before the parade, after all the plans for his assasination were made, he had C.C. transfer her code to him. Then afterwards he notified Jeramiah of his immortal condition and plans to be with C.C. This is why I think Jeremiah was always smiling when Suzaku assasinated Lelouch as Zero…. he knew that Lelouch wasn’t going to die at that point.
From a logistical standpoint it makes sense as well because Jeremiah would be the only one that would easily be able to wisk Lelouch’s body away after the assasination so that he could reunite with C.C.
Based upon Suzaku’s teary eyed reactions and Nunnally bawling her eyes out I don’t think either of them knew of his immortality. And he pretty much just had to play dead long enough to get out of site with the help of Jeremiah
I do think that they hinted at lelouch’s fate a little vuagely because if you didn’t put the pieces together you wouldn’t have gotten it.
What I think would have been the best and most dramatic way they could have done it would be to have C.C.’s hair blow away from her forehead to reveal that her code is gone right after she says “Eh Lelouch?”
That would have been fairly amazing… but sadly they didn’t… oh well.
Like CJ, I am against character resuscitation. My contention with the ‘Lelouch is alive’ theory is not rooted in fact but in preference. I’ve always thought that life only has meaning if you die, and eternal life is always a cheapening of this. That, and it makes the final scene just that much worse.
I think Lelouch is alive because in the end of Code Geass R2 episode 25 you see a pink origami bird in the end of the story. if you see again Code Geass R2 episode 6 you will see Lelouch with that pink origami bird while talking to cc. Cc don’t have that origami bird and the only person that will take a origami bird as memento, is Lelouch.
The REAL question is, what did Gendo say to Ritsuko before he killed her?
P.S. Halycon is absolutely correct about Nunally not getting stunned, and about her longstanding hand holding abilities.
Guys, it’s pretty obvious that Lelouch had to die in the end no matter how much us fans wanted him to live on.
But I support the theory that CC actually gave him the Code of Immortality and that the scene of CC kneeling the Chapel crying were tears of joy because Lelouch wanted to spend his remaining years with CC. Lelouch x CC!
Also with Xing, I believe his dead. He wasn’t shown as one of those ‘traitors’ to be executed – I checked numerous times for his appearance after he charged with his damaged Mecha. There were photos on Kallen’s wall, many of which I thought were the Easter Eggs if you paused and looked closely. There is a photo that appears to be in the Chinese Federation back drop with Ougi on the left, Viletta on the right and Tristian and the little Princess in the middle. Under closer inspections I gasped seeing a person with long black hair in a white trench-coat style wear gazing out the window in the background of the photo. Sadly I concluded that it was Guildford, because why would Xing be standing at the back and not in the center with the Princess instead of Tristian. I’m pretty sure it’s implied that Tristian goes on to looking after her. People keep saying Xing is doing duties..? What duties? The fact his Mecha appeared in the scene with Nunnanly shaking hands with Ougi obviously means he died and his Mecha remains as a memory. Sadly I didn’t want him to die either, but Sunrise seriously left too many hints for his demise and not enough for his survival.
In the big wedding photo, it’s implied;
Kallen x Tristian
Guildford x Cornelia (Obviously)
Lloyd x Purple-Haird girl (Sorry – forgot her name)
Toudou x Obviously the girl that asked him to marry her
And I thought it was funny seeing a ‘Eupihe’ looka-like at the bottom near Nina implying obviously she is a lesbian, haha.
In the end this anime was great. But did you guys realise that Jeremiah purposely (make it look like) he tried to stop Suzaku (in Zero form) and failed with a smile while falling. In my opinion I think he knew all along – he would never betray Lelouch. Also the Orange-kun x Anya obviously went for the ‘Marianne’ irony that she was once in her.
All in all to conclude, Ougi was a fuckwit that deserved to die – excuse my French.
ROFL MY BAD!
Xing is shown with the Princess at the end with the executions but never again.
Funny how I didn’t shed one drop of tear when Euphy died but cried a river when Lelouch died.
@ Grimmjow
“Also with Xing, I believe his dead. ”
Sorry to say this but Xing-ke is alive. He was with Tianzi at the execution ground. And in the end, his knightmare frame Shen-hu was there when Nunally and Ohgi shakes hands, and he is the only one who can pilot Shen-hu. So he is alive.
I’m torn between wanting Lulu to just stay dead and wanting to hear Fukuyama’s mad cackle again.
Hm.
Does the fact that we are all discussing Lelouch’s death as if it really matters make us look like Otaku?
Not to beat a dead horse, but to the people who think that Jeremiah smiled in the end because he knew that Lulu was immortal (assuming that he wouldn’t smile at the prospect of Lulu dying), what do you think was/would be his reaction to knowing that Marianne was killed a second time? If he has any clue that Lulu might be immortal, I can’t see how he wouldn’t have learned of the events that took place between Lulu and his parents in the World of C. In fact, if Anya was capable of and decided to divulge her memories to him (he ungeassed her, right??), then he may know about Marianne and Charles’ little scheme anyway. I’m gonna venture out onto a precarious limb of analysis and suggest that his smile was not due to the fact that Lulu was alive, but the fact that his plans were finally coming to fruition. He must have at some point realized that his goal was not to protect Lulu’s death, but his *honor*. I’m not so sure that I readily buy the whole story that he is immortal and still alive. I mean, how could we respect him as a character if he didn’t die? He may be alive and floating somewhere in the ethers, but my bet is that Taniguchi, Sunrise, CLAMP and whoever else may have been involved laid out just enough evidence to satisfy both camps (i.e. “dead” versus “alive”) without leaning too far in either direction. They shall have their cake and eat it too!
As for the rest of the characters, I don’t give a damn, so long as Diethard is six feet under. I’ll even forgive Ougi T_T
@Halcyon
‘The point is, when someone who has received a Code dies they are immediately revived as was the case with C.C., V.V. and Charles. If Lelouch had received a Code from Charles he would’ve revived immediately after he ‘died’ during the Black Knights and Cornelia’s storming the parade.’
Really ? Because I could swear that time did pass after they were dead and even then we can still only make a hypothesis.Silly me.
‘I’ve already debunked the theory of Charles’ code passing onto Lelouch. No one can refute this. Charles certainly didn’t force it onto his greatest enemy and Lelouch had no reason or desire to take it. Immortality was not a part of Lelouch’s end-game strategy.’
Since we don’t know HOW the code is passed exactly , your theory is NOT irrefutable.
‘Firstly, I don’t have to explain it. I’m not the writer of the show. It’s Geass, half of the show never made sense in the first place. Not all of the pieces are going to fit neatly into place as I’ve already noted the various open plot threads in my FIRST reply to this blog entry.’
Yet you seem hellbend on having developed an “irrefutable” theory, kinda contradicting,no? On top of that, you ARE making an arguement here , so you DO have to explain it.
‘Secondly, Nunnally’s “ability” to see memories wasn’t limited to Lelouch. Nunnally has been able to tell whether or not people have lied to her by touching their hands for quite a few episodes now. The writers never explain how or why she can do that. AGAIN as I’ve already noted in my first post. ‘
So her abilities as a living lie detector evolved into mind reading ? This theory sure has a lot of holes…
‘Her “seeing” Lelouch’s memories is not related to the code. At all. That’s just people grasping at straws. Most of the time when someone came into contact with a code (Anya, Suzaku, etc) they were momentarily stunned and had no memory or recollection of the moments immediately following the contact. This was not the case with Nunnally as she continued to bawl her eyes out and press herself into her dead Onii-sama’s chest.’
All of those people had fully evolved the code,Lelouch’s hadn’t activated yet.Even IF (big if here ) Nunally reading Lelouch’s mind is unrelated , how do you explain it ?
‘There’s no evidence to support that the cart driver is Lelouch.
It’s simply a delusional fantasy from fanboys who do not want to let go.
The cart driver does not have Lelouch’s Geass eyes or any other distinct features attributable to Lelouch. He also does not possess a Code and that’s the only way Lelouch would’ve been able to survive being impaled by a sword and bleeding to death in front of a crowd of people, including his own sister.’
You don’t see me calling you names so please refrain from doing so.Keeping it civil is the way to go.
That aside, how do you know that the driver ISN’T Lelouch ? We never saw him, they made sure of that.For that matter, nearly no part of his body is visible so you can’t rule out him having the code (and vice-versa, confirm he has it).
‘I’m pretty sure they showed him on the floor bleeding to death. No one who has gone through that experience (Shirley, Diethard, etc) has survived this. Furthermore, they haven’t conclusively showed Lelouch reviving. This is speculation on the fans’ part due to the last 10 seconds of the show.’
Marianne. Yeah, I know there were big differences etc. but I just wanted to point out that you shouldn’t take everything at face value.
The golden word in there is conclusively: you can neither prove he lives nor that he died.
‘The entire basis for people even speculating Lelouch surviving is because C.C. tilts her head towards the sky a few degrees and utters a two-word Sentence.’
Read the arguements that have been said so far once more then.Can you refute EACH and every one of them with a satisfying answer? So far, you haven’t.
@Zentari
True none of us know wether he is alive nor dead. But consider these cross examinations of the points you brought up.
Now your reply to Halcyon i agree with since sunrise didnt give us all the details on the code all we know is it has to be taken or received and lelouch at the time did not want it because his plans for cc and zero requim had not been made so there was no need. Now what stumps me about the code is that it seems that the user can choose how fast they heal and revive just from what ive seen in the show but this simply a speculation and does not have enough hard evidence to back up.
Now on to the nunnally part and seeing the memories. Now remember coming in contact with code weilder can lead to disturbing images beeing shown, but that is not the only thing it does they can also show people their memories, CC pulled this one twice on lelouch the first being accidental and not being very well played seeing as cc did not allow him to see them of her own will the 2nd time however she did. Now on to the point about nunnally’s lie detecting i doubt thats anything supernatural at all. just think about what she is. she is blind. most people look for a “poker face” when someone is lying but if you couldnt see, holding someone hand and feeling the pulse would work to(think now when someone lies the hearts beat elevates which is what a polygraph test shows but you can still feel the increase in pulse through just a hand/wrist)
Now on to your final statement about the cart driver this is one of my weakest evidence that i presented yesterday but none the less there are some things to consider. Now you mention there was no presence of face marks or geass but remember 2 things what makes the cart driver out of place is the fact that they DIDNT show his face thats what makes it entirely odd for them to not just throw a random face on someone unless they didnt want you to know who it is. And also remember if he did receive the code wether it be from CC or charles(unlikely). once it activates it takes the place of the geass. so geass wouldnt be present anyway. What you have to look at is the bigger picture to this point this series has been a bunch of twist and turns some that could of been predicted if you pay attetion to the littler details and remember the info from earlier on in the series. Just think of it this way sunrise has pulled a fast one on us every episode up till the last one which was straight forward pretty much. What makes you think that they wouldnt do the same thing with the last episode? And go back up a few post find my 2 original ones and READ them analyze the info. But thinking he is not alive and having evidence to support he may be alive are 2 totally diferent things. Evidence always beats feelings in a discussion.
The most obvious truth is that Lelouch is dead. In a normal circumstance, having a sword thrust through your chest and bleeding uncontrollably will cause one to die. You’ll have to be really good to refute that. Now, you’re all probably thinking “well, this isn’t a normal circumstance,” what with the matter of codes and whatnot. But the problem is there is no hard evidence that Lelouch got a code. All these theories stem from the fact that immortality is possible within the story. That said, with no provable guarantee that Lelouch received a code or that he is the driver at the end of the episode, there’s really no other true outcome we can come to besides Lelouch having really died.
I don’t want him to have died, I really liked his character a lot. But it’s the only fact-based provable ending. To go off on a tangent though, wasn’t anyone else surprised he didn’t snap his neck the way he tumbled down the ramp to Nunally?
I’d like to add one statement in regards to death as portrayed by Lelouch in the final scene.
Although you see Lelouch being stabbed by the sword and his fall towards Nunnally and the heavy bleeding followed thereafter, the act itself of closing your eyes does not definitively prove death happened at that moment. With the heavy blood loss and the pale eyes, one can assume that his time of death was at that very instant, however it can also be assumed that Lelouch merely fell unconscious and could have died at a later point.
If the logic that revival is instantaneous at the time of death, then it’s entirely possible that if his death occurred later on, he could have been revived in a scene that was not shown in that episode.
Like i had mentioned earlier in one of my responses… It is funny to note that we question trivial things like this, yet don’t question things like geass or sakuradite.
Personally, I would like to believe Lelouch is alive, however if canon were to prove that he is dead, I am perfectly willing to accept that course of action. I just feel that with the way this story has played out, it seems to make more sense for his survival.
It does make sense for Lelouch to die however, which is something I won’t refute. The series is based around lies, deception and plot twists, it makes sense that at the end of it all, he finally defeats the cycle of these untruths and finally gives the world a sparkle of truth, that his death will destroy the current world and set people free.
But his death also leads me to question one thing, how valuable is death in this series? Does his survival have that much of an impact to the world even though the symbolism of his assassination in front of the world was accomplished to set off this new beginning? He accomplished his goal of destroying the world and recreating it, why can’t he live peacefully with C.C. in the outskirts of the world? Is the finality of his death absolutely necessary to finish the series off with?
These are questions I’m sure will have multiple answers which will all have a legitimate rationale, I just like to think about these things when it comes to our perspective on these issues.
Also to everyone commenting to this topic, lighten up a little, we’re arguing logic over a fictional series. I’m not sure anybody has told you but umm…. Lelouch isn’t real x=
how is it that the people on this website say mad shit about code geass but say shity anime like natsume-yuujin-chou are good. what the fuck is wrong with you guys. see this is the reason i stop coming to this website
@Zentari
Really ? Because I could swear that time did pass after they were dead and even then we can still only make a hypothesis.Silly me.
Again. You’re missing the point. Even if time had passed after his death scene, that does NOT negate the fact that he would’ve revived immediately after death had he obtained a code, in front of a crowd of people.
What do YOU think would’ve happened afterwards? Do you think people would’ve gone about their normal lives after seeing an UNDEAD IMMORTAL Emperor rise from the grave?
Clearly, they were able to move on because they believed that the worst was behind them now that the faux-dictator, Lelouch, was dead.
Kallen as much stated that all the worlds hatred died with Lelouch. How anyone could’ve missed this clue is beyond me.
Since we don’t know HOW the code is passed exactly , your theory is NOT irrefutable.
We do know how the code is passed. They showed it to us at least twice in the series. When C.C. received her code it was forced on her. When Charles received his code, he took it from V.V.
Clearly, based on this information the passing of the code involves two things:
1. A double Geass signifying achieving a sufficient level of power or ability to obtain a code.
2. A desire of the recipient or giver to pass or take the code.
The first condition was satisfied. The second was not. So there goes your theory.
Yet you seem hellbend on having developed an “irrefutable” theory, kinda contradicting,no? On top of that, you ARE making an arguement here , so you DO have to explain it.
My position is very simple. Lelouch is dead, because, they showed him dying.
Everyone else’s argument is “Lelouch is alive because C.C. tilted her head and said ‘Ne, Lelouch?”. Which doesn’t really prove anything. She could’ve been talking to herself for all we know. But people took that as a “sign” that he could be the cart driver eventhough there is ZERO evidence to prove that.
So her abilities as a living lie detector evolved into mind reading ? This theory sure has a lot of holes…
Or lie detector ‘ability’ could’ve always been “mind-reading” from the beginning. Hence how she was able to tell how people were lying to her from touching their hands. For all we know, the reason ‘images’ weren’t shown when she was ‘reading minds’ was because she was ‘blind’ at the time. And the reason ‘images’ showed when she ‘read Lelouch’s mind’ was because she could now see. Imagine that.
Like I’ve already stated, twice, Sunrise/Taniguchi has not explained how Nunnally gained this ability or why she has it. Just that she does.
All of those people had fully evolved the code,Lelouch’s hadn’t activated yet.Even IF (big if here ) Nunally reading Lelouch’s mind is unrelated , how do you explain it ?
If you paid attention, like I did, Nunnally touches Lelouch’s hand at 19:02 and sees through Lelouch’s memories/plan. Lelouch then responds to Nunnally telling him that she loves him at 19:17. Lelouch doesn’t die until 19:35 through the episode.
So how do YOU explain Nunnally seeing Lelouch’s memories if his “code” hadn’t activated yet because he was still alive? Answer: Because her seeing his memories had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH A “CODE”. Lelouch had no Code.
Boom. Another theory shotdown.
You don’t see me calling you names so please refrain from doing so.Keeping it civil is the way to go.
#1. I didn’t call ‘anyone’ a name or an insult.
What I said was, the vain hope in defiance of obvious evidence is simply delusion on the part of fans. What else would you call it?
It’s like George W Bush still insisting Weapons of Mass Destruction exist in Iraq, eventhough no evidence to support that conclusion has been found.
Here is the definition which supports my designation:
de·lu·sion (dĭ-lōō’zhən) Pronunciation Key
n.
Psychiatry A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness:
That aside, how do you know that the driver ISN’T Lelouch ? We never saw him, they made sure of that.For that matter, nearly no part of his body is visible so you can’t rule out him having the code (and vice-versa, confirm he has it).
That’s a logical fallacy of negative proof. The onus of proof isn’t on me to provide evidence that the driver isn’t Lelouch. It’s on you to provide evidence that the driver IS Lelouch, especially when we already have prior evidence which establishes Lelouch dying in front of a crowd of people pretty conclusively.
In case you aren’t familiar with the fallacy of Negative Proof I’ve provided a definition below:
Negative proof, the fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative, is a logical fallacy of the following form:
“X is true because there is no proof that X is false.”
It is asserted that a proposition is true, only because it has not been proven false. The negative proof fallacy often occurs in the debate of the existence of supernatural phenomena, in the following form:
“A supernatural force must exist, because there is no proof that it does not exist”.
Marianne. Yeah, I know there were big differences etc. but I just wanted to point out that you shouldn’t take everything at face value.
The golden word in there is conclusively: you can neither prove he lives nor that he died.
I can prove that he died, because the pretty clearly show him getting impaled with a sword and bleeding to death.
What you’re arguing is not that he lives but whether or not he resurrected from dying. There is no evidence to show that he came back from the dead or that he possessed a code.
Thus, since there is no evidence to support that hypothesis the only alternative that remains is the Lelouch died and stayed dead.
Read the arguements that have been said so far once more then.Can you refute EACH and every one of them with a satisfying answer? So far, you haven’t.
All of the arguments stem from C.C.’s statement at the end. If C.C. hadn’t clearly said “Ne, Lelouch?” at the end everyone would’ve pretty clearly guessed that he had stayed dead. A head-tilt is not proof of resurrection. At all.
Every OTHER theory about Lelouch having a code or any other bullshit that’s been posted is purely speculation without proof or evidence. Since I’ve already negated the foundation of the argument for Lelouch surviving (hurr hurr He had a code, he didn’t know about) there’s no reason for me to refute each and every unsubstantiated statement as to how Lelouch survived. Simply put, to think that Lelouch is alive is desperately grasping at straws.
@AVI ace: We don’t blog anime we don’t like at THAT. If it’s being blogged, rest assured that someone here thinks it’s good. Look at it this way, if Geass wasn’t a masterpiece, it wouldn’t receive half the attention that it does, both good and bad. An anime like Natsume Yuujin-chou, entertaining as it may be at times, wouldn’t hold up under half the scrutiny that has been thrust upon Geass.
More importantly, why seek out a website where everyone’s opinions are the same as your own? The whole reason we encourage comments is to share ideas and opinions, so long as they are somewhat thoughtful.
One thing is for certain in my book, Lelouch’s death is debatable. There is strong evidence that will demonstrate that he is dead and that he isn’t coming back from it. However, if you consider the mythos that reside within the geass world, it can be considered highly plausible that Lelouch is indeed alive.
Using real world logic and rationale, we can assume that the nations of the world will indeed verify the facts and ensure that Lelouch’s death is legitimate and that he truly died. We can also assume that given the circumstances, a sword through the heart and lungs would indeed provide a lethal blow which would inevitably lead to his instant death. Using common sense, I would assume that Lelouch truly died and that the series will end on that note.
However, if you consider the various supernatural occurrences throughout the series, such as presenting the logic behind transmittal of the code and of the geass powers, as well as the transferral of souls and characters escaping certain death. All of these situations would not conform with rationale thought processes. With all of these unexplained events, this leads us to believe that there is potential and possibility of Lelouch’s survival during this event.
Both arguments have strong logic and rationale built into the explanations, however we cannot be certain of the fate of Lelouch because both arguments will inevitable prove to be correct if your rationale follows a certain flow. The only way this question can be answered is if the producers of this show decide to give us an ova or third series to solve these questions.
And to end my comment, like Halycon had put it, “to think that Lelouch is alive is desperately grasping at straws”. Sometimes you end up getting the straw, and that’s when someone comes out of the blue and says “I told you so”.
Personally I’d rather take the neutral approach and accept the possibility of both endings.
@akusatou
The whole argument behind Lelouch still being alive is based upon Lelouch receiving the Code from Charles.
The whole premise behind Lelouch receiving the Code from Charles is based upon Nunnally seeing into Lelouch’s memories.
The logic follows: “People usually wind up seeing into memories when they come into contact with someone that has a Code. Nunnally saw Lelouch’s memories. Thus, Lelouch has a code”.
When you actually watch the episode, Nunnally sees Lelouch’s memories while he’s still alive. Since people need to ‘die’ before a code activates, it follows that Nunnally seeing into his memories had nothing to do with Lelouch having a ‘code’.
When the foundation for the argument is flawed, the entire argument is flawed.
The argument for Lelouch being dead is more conclusive and has more evidence (actual evidence not speculation) than the argument for Lelouch being alive.
Well as for Charles giving him the code, I didn’t really believe that was the case. I was under the impression that C.C. could have given him the code. To transfer the code, I don’t recall there being any conditions in regards to having to die to activate the code nor the giver of the code having to die to make the transfer.
When V.V. transferred the code to Charles, it was done well before the battle that occurred in episode 13 and 14. I don’t see any instance where when the code was transferred, Charles or V.V. was required to die.
When C.C. originally received the code from the nun in episode 14, it shows the nun having passed away after giving C.C. the code. This was because it was her earnest wish to finally be able to die. C.C.’s wish is to be loved and she found this with Lelouch, that way if she were to transfer the code to Lelouch, it would be out of love and that he could reciprocate that love with her. The reason why you see C.C. in the chapel in that episode is because that was the very chapel she received the code from the nun. She went there to cry for the nun because she made a realization that the transfer of the code was not to simply die like the nun had insisted. Lelouch managed to give her a reason to transfer the code in terms of love and not out of death.
I guess if you only watch the last episode, you could draw these conclusions, however if you look at all of the events leading up the finale, I suppose you could draw out better conclusions ^_~
These are all my opinions by the way, so feel free to critique them all you like
Well as for Charles giving him the code, I didn’t really believe that was the case. I was under the impression that C.C. could have given him the code. To transfer the code, I don’t recall there being any conditions in regards to having to die to activate the code nor the giver of the code having to die to make the transfer.
Every time someone has received a Code, the previous Code Holder had to die in order to transfer the Code. If you look back at the series, C.C. received her code from her “master” the same way. Charles actually took V.V.’s code as V.V. was on the verge of death.
A code receiver has to die in order to activate the code because you can’t have both a Code and a Geass at the same time.
When V.V. transferred the code to Charles, it was done well before the battle that occurred in episode 13 and 14. I don’t see any instance where when the code was transferred, Charles or V.V. was required to die.
V.V. was already bleeding to death when his code got snatched by Charles. The code didn’t actually appear on Charles’ hand until after Lelouch shot him.
Thusly we can conclude that the previous Code holder has to die to transfer the code to a contracted Geass User that has Double Geass and that the person receiving the Code has to die in order to activate it (i.e. die so you can lose your 2x Geass and awaken your code).
When C.C. originally received the code from the nun in episode 14, it shows the nun having passed away after giving C.C. the code. This was because it was her earnest wish to finally be able to die. C.C.’s wish is to be loved and she found this with Lelouch, that way if she were to transfer the code to Lelouch, it would be out of love and that he could reciprocate that love with her. The reason why you see C.C. in the chapel in that episode is because that was the very chapel she received the code from the nun. She went there to cry for the nun because she made a realization that the transfer of the code was not to simply die like the nun had insisted. Lelouch managed to give her a reason to transfer the code in terms of love and not out of death.
The Code grants you immortality. You can’t pass it on UNLESS you die and the only person capable of receiving the Code is a contracted Geass user. In effect, when you lose your code, you lose your immortality and your life.
When C.C. received her Code for the first time, you see a large scar on her chest/stomach indicating that the Nun who gave her the Code probably tried to kill her so that C.C. would react, in self-defense, and kill the Nun/take her code.
I guess if you only watch the last episode, you could draw these conclusions, however if you look at all of the events leading up the finale, I suppose you could draw out better conclusions ^_~
Nah. Your conclusions are a bit flawed because they’re based on assumptions.
If you looked at the overall series, you would see that every Code holder has died before their code became active, that applies to C.C. and Charles (since we never saw when V.V. got his code). If you look at the overall series, you’d also see that the previous Code Holders die when they pass on their Codes (V.V., The Nun who gave C.C. her Code).
Based on this specific evidence, you can conclude that both the Code Holder and Contracted Geass User need to die, at least once, to pass on and activate the code.
This series has never shown anyone passing on their code and still being alive afterwards. You lose your code, you lose your immortality. Lose your immortality and it’s game over.
Where did they say that death was a requirement of the transfer? Charles didn’t receive Geass the moment V.V. died, as you had seen in that episode, he was already immortal well before the code appeared on his hand. Evidence of his obtaining the code before V.V.’s death is seen when Lelouch attempts to use Geass on his father. It cuts to a scene where normally you see the patterns realign within each victim, however it is halted which points to the ineffectiveness of geass. More proof of this is with the lack of the red circle around Charles’ eyes. This proves that he was immune to the effects of geass at that moment which is a trait shared by all code carriers. I’m not a genius in logic, however that does prove to be a bit of a flaw in the logic that the previous code carrier has to be dead for the code to have been transferred. You can make the claim that he shot himself to seal the deal, however if that were the case, he can’t have blocked the geass before receiving the immortality. He purposely shot himself to prove the point that he’s become immortal and that Lelouch’s attempts have become fruitless.
Secondly, the scene with C.C. and the nun does not show that C.C. had been killed in order to complete the transfer. It merely shows blood on her neck and body which could have been the nun’s blood as the nun had killed herself after the transfer had been made. C.C. could have held onto the body of the nun weeping at this realization of what has just occurred.
I am making a lot of assumptions to back these claims, however a lot of your conclusions and so called “hard evidence” that you make are based on assumptions and interpretations of scenes that are ultimately created by you. Just because your perception of the scene lead to the creation of a certain rationale does not mean that your interpretation is infallible. I am not saying that my rationale is absolutely correct, however it sounds like you are saying that yours is. Circumstantial evidence does not prove truth, it merely provides coincidences between two events.
And like you had mentioned earlier, the negative proof of “X is true because there is no proof that X is false.” You haven’t seen a transfer of the code that did not result in the death of the carrier, therefore a transfer of that nature cannot occur?
This series is about hypocrisy, deception and lies, what makes you think that everything you see will be as clear as the way you interpret it to be?
@ Calwain
sorry boss but couldnt find the loop video of orange again and my friend said the guy who put it up deleted it
sorry
@Halcyon
Your theories are good but you misrepresented several things in your statements.
Listen the user that had the code does not die imediatley after transfer its only if te new user decides to kill them now with their striped immortality that they die or that had a mortal wound when they gave up the code (VV’s case). And from what ive seen from the show it definatly doesnt look like they revive immediatly it looks like they can either choose when to heal or it takes more time with severity of the injury.(remember cc received fatal wounds from shrapnel and was out for several hours before reviving)
And with your other statements you are just making assumptions like the rest of us you can assume they are right you can only look and hope but your basing yours off the fact that you think someone with the code revives immediatly which hasnt happened every time as i said. there is more then just the images nunally visions that give the impression that lelouch may have received the code. The is the the scene with CC when she is crying for lulu(happiness or sadness) look at her forhead no presence of the code is seen. And towards the fact that he survived how hard would it to have been in a 2 month time period for him to figure out how to live after his death scene.(remember now he still held the promise to CC about making her happy and letting her die with a smile on her face) Notice to peoples facial expresions at the end of the show.
1. being lulus death scene in which he was smiling as he died but it wasnt a happy smile it was one that said hah i win the world gets peace and i will survie after this but this just presumption on my part
2. CC in the cart at the am i the only to notice that she is beyond happy seeing as the person she loved is dead
But the fact of the matter is sunrise likes to play the mind games to get discusion like this started as they sit back and luagh at a job well done. The truth is youdont know if lulu received the code from either possible person wether it be charles(unlikely) or CC(most likely) and neither can I we are basing our hypothesis out of assumption seeing as we dont have every detail needed to close the case. but as my final mark you are correct sunrise loves to deceive but the thing they did with the last episode was to straightforward for them till this point. Just consider this go back through some key episodes pay attetion to detail because sunrise loves to hide the good little easter eggs in out of place scenes.
wow off topic here but i appologize for the misspellings and words left out i usually edit after i post but it wouldnt allow me
It’s been interesting to read the many theories of the ending. Many people have come up with different possibilities as to whether Lulu was alive or not. I do lean on towards Lulu being alive though. However I also think that Sunrise made the ending so, to let the viewers interpret it in their own way.
There are two main possibilities you could derive from watching the last scenes.
Simple enough its, whether Lelouch was alive or not. The way I see it, there are fans who wanted Lelouch dead and fans who wanted him alive. To satisfy both of the fans, Sunrise created an open end.
Evidences that you could use to support that Lelouch is alive are can be seen throughout the whole series and especially the last scene. If Sunrise meant to really end the series with Lulu dead, then they would not have added those minor details which you could use to conclude that Lelouch is alive. It was their intention to add these tiny details. One of the biggest clue in the last episode was the scene where C.C. was on the horse-drawn cart, which was driven by a masked man. You practically infer many things from this, people even said that the driver had many similar features with Lelouch. Then there was C.C.’s last line, “Right, Lelouch?” with her head falling back, to either tilt her head towards the driver or to the sky. These details Sunrise added would be rendered unnecessary if they wanted to indicate that Lelouch is dead. I would elaborate more on this, however I see that this page has enough of those. It really was amusing to see how much facts fans picked up from previous episodes and how they all connected it. Just comes to show how many little hints Sunrise placed along the show.
Truth be told, I can’t find as many solid facts that would prove that Lelouch is dead. The only way that many people have used to shoot down theories that Lelouch is alive, was to disprove those facts. However as I rewind through the earlier episodes I picked up some things that could prove that Lulu is nothing but cold corpse within the earth. Much like how there are many indications in the series that prove that Lelouch is alive there are also tiny details that would steer many viewers into thinking that Lelouch is dead. One would be that many of his lines have a strong implication of his acceptance of death. One such line he said recently, although I can’t seem to recall when he said it, was “only those willing to be shot can themselves shoot others.” Recognize it? Well I want to point out that he has mentioned this before. He said this right after he acquired his Geass, and back in my first run of the episode I didn’t see that line with much context. Now it seems that it has some significance. When Lulu was said this, he knew the true meaning of the words and at the tone when he said it, it seemed like he knew that there will be repercussions, and that one day he himself will pay a price, for being a “shooter” himself. With this, one can even go as far, to say that Lulu already thought of his death, or that he devised his clever plan Zero Requiem at the time, he acquired his Geass. With his intellect, I wouldn’t be surprised if he did conceive that plan early on. Another thing would be his raison d’etre, or his reason to live, what was it? In the beginning it was to create a world without chaos for Nunnaly, to find out who was responsible for his mother’s death, to crush Britannia, and more importantly to make C.C. smile/happy. I believe that he did achieve all those, the last one is debatable but I strongly agree that he did by the end accomplish that. His raison d’etre is what kept him alive and what kept him going. It was the soul of his determination, and when it was accomplished it is imminent that he would no longer have his reason for living. He then created a plan which accomplished those goals, but also integrated within the plan is the withdrawal of his existence. I’m not saying that alone is the reason for his desire of death, there are numerous other reasons why he would want to be dead, one of those I will explain later. Man I hope that at least 25% of you who read from the start is still reading this. Anyway, all I’m trying to get to is that he not only may have foreseen his death in the beginning and accepting it but as the story progressed he may have thought that death was his only option and that it is was the cornerstone of his plan. One other thing I would like to talk about is when he said farewell to Kallen, it was a sullen goodbye. It sounded like a farewell coming from someone who knows his death is coming. Remember how Charles was able to talk to Clovis? Remember how he said that Clovis is on the beach? It made me think that what if C.C. was talking to Lelouch, but she was speaking upwards, towards the heavens. It’s just speculation but it explains why many of the images seen during the scene where Lelouch delivers his last words. Though he said “I’m going to… destroy the world and recr-”, I couldn’t help but think that what if Lelouch was also trying to say I’m going to where everyone is. C.C. mentioned that Geass does not cause loneliness. Many approached it this way: C.C. said this because she is with Lelouch, but what if its percieved this way: Lelouch is not lonely because he is among his family members up there. What if he wanted to die because he would be among those who have died for his cause? Currently I do not have any more solid evidence to prove that he did want to die, or is dead, but maybe after my second through the show I could present some more.
Though indicators of Lelouch being alive over weighed the indicators that Lelouch is dead, I still think that Sunrise tried to make it so that it leaves us different possibilities and also to satisfy both factions. It wasn’t really successful because many wanted a solid ending but that just leaves us with OVAs, which I hope that they do make or else I will not be satisfied. Hopefully, if its made, that it would be a peek into the future. Its been a fun ride on board the Geass train but I think its time to step back into reality, but maybe take the G00 line.
P.S. How about this? Instead of telling everyone your thoughts about Lelouch’s state of being, I want to hear theories about the future in the Code Geass World. Particularly pairings. I’m interested to see what kind of pairings we get based on the last few scenes of the episode. Also do you think this peace will last? Although Kallen has mentioned that war is abolished, and that the energy fueling war is instead going towards world hunger and poverty, I think that the united world will not last. 10-15 yrs into the future, what do you think Kallen’s sizes will be? Lol, just kidding, but seriously 10-15 yrs into the future what will the status of the world be and where are the main characters and what do you think they are doing? I’m interested to know what your thoughts are so I hope you guys reply back.
@Halcyon :
‘What do YOU think would’ve happened afterwards? Do you think people would’ve gone about their normal lives after seeing an UNDEAD IMMORTAL Emperor rise from the grave?’
Are you implying that Lelouch wouldn’t be smart enough to stay down ? Hell , if Charles didn’t get up, Lelouch would have ignored him altogether.
’2. A desire of the recipient or giver to pass or take the code.’
It does ? Once more, we do not know the rules.For all you know, all it would need is the desire of one of the two to KILL the other one (BOTH valid substitudes to yours) and hell even if that is correct you do not know what Charles did, because afterall by that time, he had lost.
‘My position is very simple. Lelouch is dead, because, they showed him dying.’
More like you WANT him to be dead and they have showed characters dying only to have them brought back at latter episodes with little to no explaination so that’s not really an arguement there.
‘But people took that as a “sign” that he could be the cart driver eventhough there is ZERO evidence to prove that.’
There is zero evidence to disprove it too.
‘Or lie detector ‘ability’ could’ve always been “mind-reading” from the beginning. Hence how she was able to tell how people were lying to her from touching their hands. For all we know, the reason ‘images’ weren’t shown when she was ‘reading minds’ was because she was ‘blind’ at the time. And the reason ‘images’ showed when she ‘read Lelouch’s mind’ was because she could now see. Imagine that.’
So you don’t want to believe that lelouch is alive because it seems over the top and yet you truly believe that ?
‘Like I’ve already stated, twice, Sunrise/Taniguchi has not explained how Nunnally gained this ability or why she has it. Just that she does.’
Nunally was blind , her touch was sensitive.Way more likely than this mind reading “theory ” ‘.
‘What I said was, the vain hope in defiance of obvious evidence is simply delusion on the part of fans. What else would you call it?’
Arrogance , to name one thing.You don’t know if you are right , you just ASSUME you are which puts you at least in the same position as them.
‘It’s like George W Bush still insisting Weapons of Mass Destruction exist in Iraq, eventhough no evidence to support that conclusion has been found.’
And yet THOSE people were grasping at straws with Nunally.On topic.
‘So how do YOU explain Nunnally seeing Lelouch’s memories if his “code” hadn’t activated yet because he was still alive? Answer: Because her seeing his memories had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH A “CODE”. Lelouch had no Code.’
Because we know the code is one shot,right ? We saw C.C bleeding to death,no one was touching her at that point, same with Charles.
‘Boom. Another theory shotdown.’
Yeap, yours.Even if that wasn’t the case you STILL have to explain it which you haven’t done so far.
‘That’s a logical fallacy of negative proof. The onus of proof isn’t on me to provide evidence that the driver isn’t Lelouch. It’s on you to provide evidence that the driver IS Lelouch, especially when we already have prior evidence which establishes Lelouch dying in front of a crowd of people pretty conclusively.’
The last part is all based on opinion and even then , Sunrise has pulled it off again.As for you pointing out that he isn’t Lelouch , that was not my point.My point was that we never SAW him while you claimed that he didn’t have the code ,something you aren’t able to know (henche you lied).
‘I can prove that he died, because the pretty clearly show him getting impaled with a sword and bleeding to death.’
Knightmare exploding , bullet rain etc.
‘What you’re arguing is not that he lives but whether or not he resurrected from dying. There is no evidence to show that he came back from the dead or that he possessed a code.’
If he is resurrected then he lives.As for the evidence , there is , you just conveniently disregard it.
‘All of the arguments stem from C.C.’s statement at the end. If C.C. hadn’t clearly said “Ne, Lelouch?” at the end everyone would’ve pretty clearly guessed that he had stayed dead. A head-tilt is not proof of resurrection. At all.’
How about the rest of them ?
‘Every OTHER theory about Lelouch having a code or any other bullshit that’s been posted is purely speculation without proof or evidence. Since I’ve already negated the foundation of the argument for Lelouch surviving (hurr hurr He had a code, he didn’t know about) there’s no reason for me to refute each and every unsubstantiated statement as to how Lelouch survived. Simply put, to think that Lelouch is alive is desperately grasping at straws.’
1.You didn’t.
2.You still have to explain ALL of them.
3.You should try to see the arguement itself instead of playing psychiatrist.
4.You don’t seem any less biased.
‘de·lu·sion (dĭ-lōō’zhən) Pronunciation Key
n.
Psychiatry A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness:’
Then ,from my perspective , you are the most delusional of them all.Again, I like civil discussions so please don’t drop stuff like that.
I really hate this editing system you have here. That wall of text is full of mistakes ,in case anyone reads it.
I do hope they make either a set of OVA’s or a third season… my biggest hopes though if for a Movie. All in all I loved this ending, it had everything I love in anime endings, action, suspense, drama, and of course death… the only thing I hate is they never clarified weather of not Lelouch was actually “Dead” Or not… though knowing him he took CC’s Code so he could live a peaceful life with her.
@akusatou
Where did they say that death was a requirement of the transfer?
As I’ve said, the code hasn’t activated on any holder until after they died. This was specifically shown when Lelouch shot Charles in the World of C. Charles’ code didn’t appear on his hand until after Lelouch shot him in the chest.
Charles didn’t receive Geass the moment V.V. died, as you had seen in that episode, he was already immortal well before the code appeared on his hand.
The Code is the only thing that grants you immortality. Charles’ was not immortal prior to receiving the Code.
Charles never “blocked” Lelouch’s Geass. Lelouch was afraid to use his Geass directly on Charles because making eye contact with Charles would also give Charles the opportunity to use his Geass on Charles.
Secondly, the scene with C.C. and the nun does not show that C.C. had been killed in order to complete the transfer. It merely shows blood on her neck and body which could have been the nun’s blood as the nun had killed herself after the transfer had been made. C.C. could have held onto the body of the nun weeping at this realization of what has just occurred.
The scene showed a large wound on her chest extending down to her abdomen indicating she had been attacked.
Any wound/attack made on someone who has a code is immediately healed, therefore, she had to have acquired that scar before she acquired the code.
I am making a lot of assumptions to back these claims, however a lot of your conclusions and so called “hard evidence” that you make are based on assumptions and interpretations of scenes that are ultimately created by you. Just because your perception of the scene lead to the creation of a certain rationale does not mean that your interpretation is infallible. I am not saying that my rationale is absolutely correct, however it sounds like you are saying that yours is. Circumstantial evidence does not prove truth, it merely provides coincidences between two events.
You don’t have any evidence, just speculation and drawing conclusions based on assumptions. In any debate, having some evidence is better than having no evidence.
What we know is Lelouch died. They showed him getting impaled and bleeding to death. They did not show Lelouch again after that. Hence, he’s dead. Anything else is just guessing on your part based on assumptions.
@Chaotic Reaper
The method of Code Transfer is irrelevant. The point is Lelouch did not receive a Code. If he did receive a Code, he would have revived after being killed.
What was shown was, he was killed. What wasn’t shown was him reviving.
The point is, guessing that Lelouch survived based on a head-nod by C.C. is insufficient.
@Zentari
Are you implying that Lelouch wouldn’t be smart enough to stay down ? Hell , if Charles didn’t get up, Lelouch would have <ignored him altogether.
Are you implying that Lelouch had control over reviving? That’s like trying to hold your breath. You can do it for a few minutes, but not indefinitely. Reviving after death, once you possess a Code, is not controllable. It’s an automatic, reflexive response by the body (see: C.C., V.V., for examples).
More like you WANT him to be dead and they have showed characters dying only to have them brought back at latter episodes with little to no explaination so that’s not really an arguement there.
They haven’t really shown any characters to “die”, i.e. actual death scenes, with the exception of Clovis, Diethard, Rolo, and Shirley. In the cases of characters bleeding to death (Diethard, Shirley) they were not revived. It’s one thing to have an ambiguous death scene, it’s quite another when they show the character being impaled to the hild with a sword and then bleeding to death in front of a crowd of people.
Additionally, there are no ‘later episodes’ to bring Lelouch back to. Taniguchi said that it was the END of Geass which only further supports Lelouch being dead as a way to bring the series to a conclusive end.
There is zero evidence to disprove it too.
Sure there is, did you miss the death scene a few minutes earlier?
So you don’t want to believe that lelouch is alive because it seems over the top and yet you truly believe that ?
I don’t believe he’s alive because there’s no evidence to support that. They showed him dying, they did not show him coming back.
It really is just that simple.
Nunally was blind , her touch was sensitive.Way more likely than this mind reading “theory ” ‘.
So a sensitive touch gives you the ability to detect lies now? LOL Can all blind people detect lies by touching?
Arrogance , to name one thing.You don’t know if you are right , you just ASSUME you are which puts you at least in the same position as them.
I am right because they SHOWED HIM DYING. LOL. Anything else is just pure fantasy.
Because we know the code is one shot,right ? We saw C.C bleeding to death,no one was touching her at that point, same with Charles.
Again, people only “see” memories when they come into contact with a code holder. Nunnally touched Lelouch and saw his memories WHILE HIS GEASS WAS STILL ACTIVE. You can’t have a Geass AND a Code at the same time. Therefore, when Nunnally touched Lelouch HE DID NOT HAVE A CODE. It’s really, really, simple.
Therefore, you cant use Nunnally “seeing” Lelouch’s memories as proof of Lelouch having a code.
You have no proof he had a code. Just a bunch of baseless assumptions with ZERO substance.
The last part is all based on opinion and even then , Sunrise has pulled it off again.As for you pointing out that he isn’t Lelouch , that was not my point.My point was that we never SAW him while you claimed that he didn’t have the code ,something you aren’t able to know (henche you lied).
It’s opinion that Lelouch was impaled during the show? LOL
Again, you’re guilty of the fallacy of negative proof.
Because X hasn’t been proven false, therefore X is true.
Knightmare exploding , bullet rain etc.
and? What does that have to do with getting impaled in the chest? Was there blood in any of those scenes? No? Then it’s irrelevant.
If he is resurrected then he lives.As for the evidence , there is , you just conveniently disregard it.
There’s evidence of Lelouch being alive? Point out what scene shows Lelouch alive and having a code.
How about the rest of them ?
You mean those straws people are grasping at that don’t really show anything?
1.You didn’t.
2.You still have to explain ALL of them.
3.You should try to see the arguement itself instead of playing psychiatrist.
4.You don’t seem any less biased.
Again, they showed Lelouch dying. They didn’t show him coming back to life. Therefore, he is dead. I don’t know why this is so difficult for you people.
Even the people who were ‘presumed’ dead at one point or another they showed coming back to life. Did they do the same for Lelouch? No. That means he’s dead.
Then ,from my perspective , you are the most delusional of them all.Again, I like civil discussions so please don’t drop stuff like that.
My belief is based on clear evidence presented on the show (i.e. showing Lelouch dying).
Your belief is based on spurious assumptions which have no conclusive evidence (i.e. Never seeing Lelouch again after he died).
Clear difference there
Again, I’ll post the definition since you seem to have missed it the first time.
A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness:
I highlighted the important parts for you.
You’re welcome. ^_^
@Halcyon
You arent listening you are basing that you are right in discusion where we dont have all the details not only is this ignorant but its arogant as well. As i said above there has been several points in the series where the resurection varied in time, one point cc took several hours now whether this is on choice of the host or severity of the wound i do not know but you cant presume that he didnt get the code just because you think he didnt your basing it off a few of the resurection and not all. Look at all the facts before you come and place your theory and like i said this is a discusion were we do not have all the details and none of us can say we are right, we can only hope we are. And you contiune to say we only base it on a head not but several over points of evidence lead you to believe he was alive after that seen, but of course if you read my original post you would know that.
Well it’s like you had stated earlier,
“As I’ve said, the code hasn’t activated on any holder until after they died. This was specifically shown when Lelouch shot Charles in the World of C. Charles’ code didn’t appear on his hand until after Lelouch shot him in the chest.”
This implies that it was you that makes these claims, not the series itself.
“The Code is the only thing that grants you immortality. Charles’ was not immortal prior to receiving the Code.
Charles never “blocked” Lelouch’s Geass. Lelouch was afraid to use his Geass directly on Charles because making eye contact with Charles would also give Charles the opportunity to use his Geass on Charles.”
You claim that Charles did not “block” the geass, and that Lelouch was afraid to come out because Charles can use his geass on him. Well, contrary to your belief, I would assume Charles knew this as well, it’s not like he is a total moron when it comes to strategy. In fact pretending that he was under the effects of geass allowed Lelouch to have a false sense of security to come out and investigate the body. This leads to the eventual realization that Charles was indeed immortal. How else can you prove immortality? Take his word on it?
“The scene showed a large wound on her chest extending down to her abdomen indicating she had been attacked.
Any wound/attack made on someone who has a code is immediately healed, therefore, she had to have acquired that scar before she acquired the code.”
More assumptions on your part as well, the image shows C.C. with blood on her neck and body but as for any wounds, you can’t tell because she has her hands covering her body which would hide any theoretical wounds she might have.
“You don’t have any evidence, just speculation and drawing conclusions based on assumptions. In any debate, having some evidence is better than having no evidence.
What we know is Lelouch died. They showed him getting impaled and bleeding to death. They did not show Lelouch again after that. Hence, he’s dead. Anything else is just guessing on your part based on assumptions.” Well given some of the evidence that I’ve pointed out in episode 14 and 15 where a bulk of the transfer occurred, I would say that I did provide some evidence, just because you refuse to accept it as evidence does not necessarily make it an assumption on my half. It just makes it an assumption in your eyes.
Also it’s nice to note that if you rewatch episode 14, C.C. explains that “At the end of Geass, the user takes over the position of the person who granted them their Geass, In other words, they gain the power to kill the giver.”
I don’t claim to be an english scholar, but for the most part, I would think that it means that the giver of the code would have to be C.C. and secondly, they gain the “power”, being as the potential and not the requirement. You could call those assumptions if you will, but that’s your job to critique and of course ignore them as purely speculation. Well it’s true that it is speculation, but you do have to recall that sometimes, speculation can be spot on. The only thing I aim for is that you acknowledge the legitimate possibility and probability of Lelouch’s survival. I don’t necessarily believe that he is alive or dead, I just acknowledge the fact that I don’t know.
Just had to say I dont care if he’s dead/alive but due to the argument above about it not showing him coming back to life.
I mean c’mon how many series have we seen someone die that they didn’t specifically show them alive again but had 15 hints to the contrary. cause you know anime series NEVER do that ^_- c’mon people they left it that way on purpose to get people talking which is obviously working like a charm
@Halcyon :
‘Are you implying that Lelouch had control over reviving? That’s like trying to hold your breath. You can do it for a few minutes, but not indefinitely. Reviving after death, once you possess a Code, is not controllable. It’s an automatic, reflexive response by the body (see: C.C., V.V., for examples).’
Staying down and playing dead is like trying to hold your breath ? Fascinating…
‘They haven’t really shown any characters to “die”, i.e. actual death scenes, with the exception of Clovis, Diethard, Rolo, and Shirley. In the cases of characters bleeding to death (Diethard, Shirley) they were not revived. It’s one thing to have an ambiguous death scene, it’s quite another when they show the character being impaled to the hild with a sword and then bleeding to death in front of a crowd of people.’
None of these people had any special power which is something that you once again conveniently ignore.
‘Additionally, there are no ‘later episodes’ to bring Lelouch back to. Taniguchi said that it was the END of Geass which only further supports Lelouch being dead as a way to bring the series to a conclusive end.’
Your opinion does not equal a fact plus there are god knows how many series that haven’t ended conclusively.Add to this that even if Lelouch lives the storyline is over and your whole point is moot.
‘Sure there is, did you miss the death scene a few minutes earlier? ‘
Sure there isn’t , did you miss the final scene ? I like how you claim that the fans are wishing for it based on one final scene and yet you yourself are convinced by one scene too.
‘I don’t believe he’s alive because there’s no evidence to support that. ‘
That you take into account , you just conveniently ignore it…
‘It really is just that simple.’
No.
‘So a sensitive touch gives you the ability to detect lies now? LOL Can all blind people detect lies by touching?’
So her being a natural mind reader is anything LESS than imposible to you ?
‘I am right because they SHOWED HIM DYING. LOL.’
No comment on this , I love being proved right.
‘Again, people only “see” memories when they come into contact with a code holder. Nunnally touched Lelouch and saw his memories WHILE HIS GEASS WAS STILL ACTIVE. You can’t have a Geass AND a Code at the same time. Therefore, when Nunnally touched Lelouch HE DID NOT HAVE A CODE. It’s really, really, simple.’
C.C STILL had her code.Charle’s stole the code from V.V .Given that we don’t know the ground rules , you can’t disprove it.It’s really, really, simple.
‘Therefore, you cant use Nunnally “seeing” Lelouch’s memories as proof of Lelouch having a code.’
If that is not the case then you are free to explain how it happened other than “it just did ” . Until then I CAN use it.
‘Again, you’re guilty of the fallacy of negative proof.’
I am ? From what I understand that works both ways and even if we disregard that there’s a LONG way from negative proof to outright ignoring FACTS merely because you can’t explain them.
‘and? What does that have to do with getting impaled in the chest? Was there blood in any of those scenes? No? Then it’s irrelevant.’
Let’s see , Guillford got BLOWN to pieces and survived.Cornelia was made like swiss cheese.I don’t know about blood but I certainly proved my point.Plus you seem to be mistaken.This arguement is about Lelouch living in the END it is NOT about him surviving being impaled by a sword (which is what you yourself have already said).
‘Again, they showed Lelouch dying. They didn’t show him coming back to life. Therefore, he is dead. I don’t know why this is so difficult for you people.’
Because you still have to explain a few things.Call it a logical fallacy all you want but the burden of proof still applies to you.If Lelouch living IS false ,you must still explain the last scene ,as well as the Nunally incident (let’s say that they had another reason for keeping the driver hidden).So far you’ve either a) avoided the issue or b) when directly asked about it your answer is “IT JUST IS “.
‘My belief is based on clear evidence presented on the show (i.e. showing Lelouch dying).
Your belief is based on spurious assumptions which have no conclusive evidence (i.e. Never seeing Lelouch again after he died).’
Yet your belied is blown up by at least two scenes while mine is only by one ,which is not final.If you want to get hardcore ,we never saw Lelouch’s body get buried or his grave for that matter.
‘A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness ‘
There is however evidence that support otherwise which is where you are wrong.
Because X hasn’t been proven false, therefore X is true.
ill take what kurogane said. ( ﾟдﾟ)
Hypothesis: Lelouch is alive at the end of the series because he was the owner of an activated Code before his death scene.
Evidence 1: Nunnally is able to see Lelouch’s memories by touching his hand when he tumbles down to her. The most substantial piece of evidence.
For: Having one’s memories projected into another person’s mind is an ability unique to Code wielders.
Against: By holding someone’s hand while they’re talking, Nunnally can tell when people are lying. Her seeing of Lelouch’s memories was either an extension or that, or she did not actually see his memories but just realized he had been lying the entire time.
My analysis: Lelouch wasn’t talking to her at the time, so apart from assuming that she has developed psychic powers this seems to be a pretty clear indication of Lelouch having the Code. Note that we haven’t seen the geass in his eyes since he used it on Nunnally in the beginning of episode 25.
Evidence 2: The sequel has R2 tacked onto the end of its name for inexplicable reasons.
For: The title of the second season can be considered a play on the names, and Lelouch is now R.R. Though it would make more sense for his name to be L.L., in Japanese ‘R’ and ‘L’ are the same sound.
Against: R2 stands for Round 2 or something along those lines.
My analysis: Everyone has wondered why C.C.’s and V.V.’s names are pronounced C2 and V2 instead of the obvious pronunciation of both letters, C-C and V-V. If Lelouch is now R.R., then his name is pronounced R2 and title has a deeper meaning and makes sense.
Evidence 3: The scene with C.C. on the wagon. Her words are somewhat vague… she says “Geass to iu na no ou no chikara… hito kodoku ni suru,” which could translate to “The power of kings known as Geass… isolates the person.” or “The power of kings known as Geass… isolates people.” But since one of the themes of the series has been how alone Lelouch was because of his power, and also the glimpse into C.C.’s past past when she had geass showed her loneliness, it is very likely the singular form. But then she says “Sukoshi dake chigatteita ka,” which translates to “But it wasn’t quite like that?” The verb conjugation refers to a period of time in the past where it wasn’t the same. This is past tense, so if she was talking about herself and Lelouch then he’s dead and she’s reminiscing. If she’s talking about his ability to connect with everyone, then she’s just remarking on his surprising achievement. At the end she looks up slightly and addresses Lelouch, though it is not clear if she is talking to his spirit or the wagon driver. The wagon driver’s hair is never shown, just a shadow from his face or hat to purposely obscure his features. The “hair in the middle of his cheek” is the line of his chin… the color above it is skin-colored, the color below it is white.
For: The wagon driver is almost completely covered and could be Lelouch, and C.C. is saying that his geass didn’t isolate him as it usually does to people, but allowed him to connect to everyone under the geass of “the wishes of everyone.”
Against: The wagon driver could be anyone, and C.C. was talking about how for a time, she wasn’t isolated and was happy that geass doesn’t have to isolate you.
My analyis: What this scene means for you is just whatever your gut instinct tells you. For me, C.C. is talking about Lelouch’s achievement and not about her brief period of happiness. And there’s not enough information from the head-inclining part, even though the reason she inclines her head slightly is indeed to address Lelouch. It’s just like when you’re sitting next to someone and talking half to them but also half to yourself, then you glance over at them for an answer with a “Don’t you think?” or “Right?” However, that works for both the spirit and the driver possibilities.
Evidence 4: Orange knew of Lelouche’s and Suzaku’s plan and helped them out by ordering his men not to fire on Zero, he even smiled when Zerozaku jumped on his shoulder.
For: (Courtesy of the entry from anime|otaku)”Now would Orange, a man who devoted himself entirely to Lelouche and threw away everything without a second thought, be OK with a plan where the sole person he wants to protect in life is actually killed? The answer to that is NO, not even if Lelouche ordered him to accept the plan: he would not go along with it and would protect him with his life. There is only one way that Orange would be OK with a plan like that and thats if he knew about Lelouche’s immortality, which I assume he did as he worked with V.V. in the Geass research base. Orange was OK with this plan as he knew Lelouche would come to no harm and would be able to start a new peaceful life with the woman he loves in a world which he himself had made peaceful. Even at the end, we see Orange on his orange plantation, completely content with the way things have panned out, he definitely could not be that happy had Lelouche actually died.”
Against: Jeremiah was loyal to Lelouch and was just satisfied that he was able to help his lord fulfill his greatest wish.
My analysis: While I find the anime|otaku entry to border on fanatical, it mostly goes with how I feel. Being happy about helping out in a plan where his lord will not only die but also die known as a monster doesn’t fit into the character he’s shown since he switched sides. While it’s no solid proof, it’s one of those things that would be hard to explain another way to satisfaction.
Now since the whole hypothesis hinges on Lelouch not only having a Code but also having it activated at the time of his death, I’ll go into those.
There are 2 possible sources of Lelouch’s Code, Charles and C.C. While it was obvious that C.C. was not dead, Charles was also a previous owner of the Code who was killed. The 2 possible scenarios are these:
1.> The Code can be transferred and activated before death and does not require the death of the previous owner. When Lelouch confronted Charles and used his geass on him and ordered him to kill himself, Charles already had activated the Code. The glove on his right hand covered up his mark until he removed it. He wasn’t geass’d, he just shot himself to make Lelouch realize how useless his efforts were. And as such, C.C. transferred her Code to Lelouch prior to his death. His Code was active at this point. Since his hair covers his forehand during the entire death scene and we don’t actually get to see if C.C. still has her mark, this is a possibility.
2.> The Code is activated upon the death of both the person with the power of geass and the Code owner. When Lelouch confronted Charles and used his geass on him and ordered him to kill himself, Charles did not already have the Code but instead still retained his geass power. He fell under the effects of Lelouch’s geass and killed himself. Along with V.V.’s death, that activated the Code and he revived, losing his geass but gaining the Code. As such, Lelouch learned through C.C. that he has received Charles’ Code through his father’s death but that it was not yet activated. Prior to his public death, he killed himself to activate his Code.
Now going over the arguments against it being true:
#1 Argument against: To transfer memories you need to the code activated on your person. To do that, you and the previous owner need to die first (as evidenced in episode 15 a total of 3 times). The methods seem to be: 1) Code owner kills the geass user and herself at the same time, forcing the Code on the geass user, and 2) geass user forcefully takes it from the Code owner.
If the same method was shown in all 3 samples, that would be enough to rule out other ways of transferring the Code. But since 2 different methods were shown in 3 samples, that is not enough to rule out a third possibility, a transfer that neither intended. For further hints of that, re-watch the scene in R2ep15, where C.C. is talking to Lelouch with the gears in the background. She tells him that if he kills her, he will receive the Code. And just before Charles died Lelouch’s geass reached its final stage, which seems to be required to receive the Code.
And it is unknown whether the death of the previous owner is necessary for activation. Correlation does not necessitate causation, after all. We know that V.V. was fatally injured at the time Charles took his Code. Since Charles had his Code already, was it really necessary for V.V. to die? If he had recovered and lived, when Charles shot himself in the heart would he just lie there on the floor until V.V. finally dies of old age? Or would the Code transfer be cancelled, so Charles just got lucky that V.V. died seconds before he did? Neither of those seem like they’d be right. As for the nun, we know that she couldn’t wait to die. The way she died, lying neatly on the floor with her hands clasped in front of her and a peaceful expression on her face, looks a little too serene to be anything but a suicide. Though how she managed to die so that there’s a big puddle of blood behind her head but no blood anywhere on her clothes will have to remain a mystery forever…
#2 Argument against: Lelouch couldn’t have been playing dead all that time and gotten away with it.
When C.C. was killed in the first episode, she didn’t revive at all while Lelouch was there. He actually left her for dead. When Charles shot himself, to Lelouch he seemed obviously dead until he started talking. He had revived without any outward sign of reviving. Whether he revived and was playing possum or if he kept himself dead… somehow… until he was tossed into a landfill or the ocean, who knows. But this is the guy who masterminded 2 rebellions, took over the Britannia Empire, and successfully made people believe he hadn’t regained his memories. I’m sure making arrangements for spiriting his corpse away wouldn’t be beyond him, especially with geass.
Little tidbits:
- The pink crane at the end seems to be the one that C.C. started on at the beginning of episode 5, first season. I suppose it could represent closure, or it could actually be a keepsake of Nunnally’s. In Japan, the paper crane represents longevity/healing, happiness, or a wish for peace. As to its significance at the end though, your guess is as good as mine.
- What the hell does the episode name “Re;” mean? I’m not satisfied by the Re;quiem theory.
Here’s a few thought…
1. when Zero appeared and did all that dodging bullet stuff, I thought it was Sayako
2. Suzaku can dodge bullets becuase of his so-called “Geass Curse” forcing him to live
3. Got a feeling Lelouch survived by taking C.C.s code
4. LONG LIVE ORANGE-KUN
@Chaotic Reaper
You arent listening you are basing that you are right in discusion where we dont have all the details not only is this ignorant but its arogant as well. As i said above there has been several points in the series where the resurection varied in time, one point cc took several hours now whether this is on choice of the host or severity of the wound i do not know but you cant presume that he didnt get the code just because you think he didnt your basing it off a few of the resurection and not all. Look at all the facts before you come and place your theory and like i said this is a discusion were we do not have all the details and none of us can say we are right, we can only hope we are. And you contiune to say we only base it on a head not but several over points of evidence lead you to believe he was alive after that seen, but of course if you read my original post you would know that.
Here’s my point (as I keep saying). They showed Lelouch dying. They never, EVER showed him coming back to life. If you can point out the scene where they show Lelouch WITH A CODE please do so.
Otherwise, he’s dead until there’s undeniable proof that he’s alive.
Evidence > Assumptive Speculation.
@akusatou
You claim that Charles did not “block” the geass, and that Lelouch was afraid to come out because Charles can use his geass on him. Well, contrary to your belief, I would assume Charles knew this as well, it’s not like he is a total moron when it comes to strategy. In fact pretending that he was under the effects of geass allowed Lelouch to have a false sense of security to come out and investigate the body. This leads to the eventual realization that Charles was indeed immortal. How else can you prove immortality? Take his word on it?
Are you even reading? Seriously, the only thing that grants immortality is a Code. Before Lelouch shot Charles, Charles was not shown having a code. Therefore, Charles only became immortal AFTER he took the code from V.V.
There has been ZERO EVIDENCE to support that immortality exists outside of having a code. And since there was no Code on Charles, until Lelouch shot him, he therefore was not immortal.
Well given some of the evidence that I’ve pointed out in episode 14 and 15 where a bulk of the transfer occurred, I would say that I did provide some evidence, just because you refuse to accept it as evidence does not necessarily make it an assumption on my half. It just makes it an assumption in your eyes.
There’s no ‘evidence’ supporting that a Code was transferred from Charles to Lelouch. That is a GUESS. An ASSUMPTION. They never showed Lelouch with a Code sigil on his body, anywhere. When you can prove that the code was transferred, it’s another story. But right now, that’s just you drawing conclusions without any proof.
I don’t claim to be an english scholar, but for the most part, I would think that it means that the giver of the code would have to be C.C. and secondly, they gain the “power”, being as the potential and not the requirement. You could call those assumptions if you will, but that’s your job to critique and of course ignore them as purely speculation. Well it’s true that it is speculation, but you do have to recall that sometimes, speculation can be spot on. The only thing I aim for is that you acknowledge the legitimate possibility and probability of Lelouch’s survival. I don’t necessarily believe that he is alive or dead, I just acknowledge the fact that I don’t know.
False. If there were 100% true then Charles wouldn’t have been able to take C.C.’s code. Marianne specifically said that Charles could’ve granted C.C’s wish if she had given Charles her code. The code can be transferred to any double-geass user.
Like I said, when any of you can point out any time in the episode that they SHOW Lelouch alive, then I’ll recant my position.
Otherwise, dead until proven alive.
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