In the above case, the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals (a text of the opinion is located here) affirmed a trial court conviction of Mr. Whorley for “knowingly receiving on a computer 20 obscene Japanese anime cartoons depicting minors engaging in sexually explicit conduct.” Does this mean you are going to get carted away for your massive loli gang rape doujin collection?
Disclaimer: this post can only be considered the ramblings of a law student on this particular case and First Amendment jurisprudence. Don’t be an idiot and take it for actual legal advice.
I. Background
Senator Orrin Hatch, the bill’s sponsor and moral authority douchebag
A bit of preliminaries here, the model citizen in question was convicted under the cutely named PROTECT Act passed by Congress in 2003. Don’t think this was Congress’ first time at the child porn rodeo however. The Supreme Court had already struck down large swaths of its predecessors, namely the Communications Decency Act, the Child Pornography Prevention Act, and the Child Online Protection Act. But Congress was not about to let the Constitution to get in the way of getting votes, and once again voted to “protect the children.”
The law imposes criminal sanctions on anyone who knowingly possesses a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that:
1) Depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct and is obscene; or
2) Depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex and lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value
Also note that “it is not a required element of any offense under this section that the minor depicted actually exist” and that Mr. Whorley was convicted under the bolded clause.
Note that many of the words in this statute do not mean what the dictionary says; they are legal terms of art that can only be explained through case law. And Congress was very, very particular in this drafting to skirt around the Supreme Court’s prior rulings, something that this Fourth Circuit court endorses. Because in Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition, as the court here points out, the Supreme Court held that “a statutory provision prohibiting any visual depiction that ‘is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct’ violated the First Amendment insofar as it prohibited virtual imagery of minors that was neither obscene nor involved actual children.” This distinction is explored two sections below.
II. Facts of the Case
In 1999 Mr. Whorley was convicted of other crimes involving the download of child pornography (of real children I believe). However, he apparently was not able to “make a good faith effort to control his sexual deviance.” He repeatedly violated his supervised release which forbid him from using computers without permission and required him to get a job and attend various child porn rehab programs, none of which he did. The court also soberly noted that Mr. Whorley was often found “at local malls and public libraries frequented by children in direct disobedience of his probation officer’s instructions.” This fellow was basically a bona fide pedophile.
As for the conviction at issue in this particular case, the facts are roughly as follows. The defendant went to the local state employment office and used the on-site computers for his porn fix. In view of everyone, at a public terminal, he both viewed and printed out underage hentai. Unsurprisingly, the staff noticed and stopped him, seizing the materials in the process and kicking him out. However, his Yahoo e-mail account was left open and the staff printed out several dirty e-mails (which is probably an illegal search, but his attorney failed to object at trial, and the FBI went after the e-mail account themselves regardless) in addition. After the incident was reported, the FBI investigated him thoroughly, finding that he conducted internet searches for “child sex play” and obtained explicit images of both real and drawn minors, all of this at the public terminal. A pretty open and shut case from an evidentiary standpoint, and unsurprisingly he was convicted on multiple counts.
III. Essential Distinctions- Obscenity
The First Amendment may say that “Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech” but it doesn’t really mean what it says. There are several exceptions to freedom of speech, including obscenity (others include incitement, fighting words, and libel), which the Supreme Court has concluded are not the types of speech the framers aimed to protect. The government is allowed to regulate those types of speech that are not protected, subject to court review. For those of you unfamiliar with the way things work in the States, Congress can write any law it feels like, but the courts can throw it out if it doesn’t follow the rules laid out in the Constitution.
I won’t spend a lot of time on whether possession of child pornography depicting actual children is illegal, because the Supreme Court long ago found it so, albeit with certain restrictions. There are also some other holdings here on what constitutes possession and receiving that I’m going to skip over. My focus is on the holdings regarding whether the government can restrict pornography depicting children that are not real.
First, child pornography depicting real children can be restricted by the government regardless of whether or not it is considered “obscene,” as decided in New York v. Ferber. On the other hand the court here cites the more recent Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition, which as previously stated, held that a statute that did not distinguish between real or actual children “violated the First Amendment insofar as it prohibited virtual imagery of minors that was neither obscene nor involved actual children.” The court reads that to indicate that the PROTECT Act language stating that “it is not a required element of any offense under this section that the minor depicted actually exist” is constitutionally valid because the crimes Mr. Whorley is charged with under the Act dealing with depictions of non-existent children require the depiction to be obscene.
Note that Mr. Whorley was only convicted under 1466A(a)(1) (“receives or possesses with intent to distribute . . . depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct and is obscene”) and not (a)(2), (b)(1) or (b)(2). The court makes no ruling on the constitutionality of those sections since the question was not before them.
So the question becomes whether or not the depictions at issue are obscene, a word which has a long history of cases behind it. The widely cited Miller test from Miller v. California lays out the three guidelines for obscenity:
1) Whether the average reasonable person applying contemporary community standards would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to prurient interests
2) Whether the work depicts or describes sexual conduct in a patently offensive way, either actual or simulated, such as sexual intercourse, sexual bestiality, masturbation, sadism, masochism, excretion or lewd exhibitions of the genitals, or “hard core.”
3) Whether, considered in its entirety, the work lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value
Wow, that’s a lot of BS huh? Obscenity is one of the most flimsy areas of constitutional law, as Justice Stevens famously remarked that there isn’t a real standard for obscenity, but that he’d know it when he saw it. And each of those standards has its own line of cases defining the “rules” that would take me a very long time to talk about. What I think you should come away from this is that it’s really not that difficult to find that most hentai would be considered obscene if you really tried. Do you trust the overzealous U.S. Attorney who’s eyeing a run for Congress on a law and order platform and the “family values” judge with lifetime tenure you may get? I wouldn’t, frankly. I guess the more story your porn has the better you’d feel, as the classic examples of depictions of Constitutionally kosher children and sex with literary value are Lolita and Romeo and Juliet.
Overly Simplified Post-Whorley Table for the Lazy/TL;DR Types
| Actual Child? | Obscene? | Protected? |
| Actual Children | Obscene | Not Protected |
| Actual Children | Not Obscene | Not Protected |
| Not Actual Children | Obscene | Not Protected |
| Not Actual Children | Not Obscene | Protected |
IV. The Future
Who knows, right? Well I suppose we can always guess. First note that this ruling is technically only binding on the Fourth Circuit (see the map here for the states involved). However, it is also important to note that most of the time the other circuits will come to similar conclusions. There’s also a decent likelihood that if Mr. Whorley’s lawyers decide to appeal this that the Supreme Court would take it up, and such a ruling would be binding on the entire country. They have ruled on the constitutionality of all of the PROTECT Act’s predecessors (striking vast portions of them down, as previously noted). I’d certainly like them to take it up and strike it down because I feel that the Whorley opinion and the PROTECT Act go against what the Supreme Court was trying to say in Ashcroft, but that’s hard to predict. Today’s court is much different from the court that decided Ashcroft, with an extra couple of conservatives now sitting on the Court.
Now some of you may be thinking, well is the FBI going to come and arrest me for my porn collection? Well first think of the situation here. This individual was an actual pedophile who was previously convicted of possessing real child porn, and in fact was convicted of possessing real child porn in addition to hentai in this case. He also was accessing it on a public computer; it was not the result of one of the FBI’s child porn sting operations. Consider also that there are domestic commercial hentai out there that depict minors, many of them with really great stories (Crescendo or Figures of Happiness, for example) and I haven’t heard of anyone being arrested for them. Both depict high schoolers having sex, along with the laughable statement that everyone in it is 18 (which holds very little weight in court). On the other hand there’s plenty of tentacle rape hentai with no story that are probably obscene in this context.
You may also want to consider another recent case of an Iowa man charged under the same statute for importing some sort of underage hentai. He got caught not because he was on a public terminal, but because he was importing manga from Japan and some bored post office officials decided to inspect it. The article indicates that the lower court ruled some parts of the PROTECT Act unconstitutional, but you can pretty much ignore that since it’s at the lowest level and the other judges can merely ignore it (not to mention it only affects Iowa’s district). I can’t really provide much insight into that case as I have no access to more of the details of the case.
In the end I think readers should realize that maintaining freedom of speech is a continuous fight for us. We take many things for granted in today’s society, forgetting the struggles of our past and the things our predecessors had to endure to enable our freedoms. How far do you think it’s ok to push the sexual envelope? Is loli ok but not scat porn? Do you think that people should have their fetishes judged by others? Do these fetishes harm other people? Whether it’s your gang rape loli hentai or Bono saying “fuck” on live television, First Amendment jurisprudence is alive and kicking. Don’t let it pass you buy without understanding your rights.
48 Comments
…are you sharing your research you’re doing for a class or journal with the rest of us? Good man.
I’m sorry, but lolita in anime and manga has gotten out of hand. Stuff like Kodomo no Jikan use what, ten year olds, to sexually titillate the audience? Stuff like Chocotto Sister and Komodo no Jikan has really gotten out of hand. It only exists to stimulate the audience with underage children as a focus.
You have no authority to declare what things exist for much less restrict them to ‘only’ exist for the purpose you declare. KnJ is a complex story that is much more than fanservice.
So my massive collection of yaoi pictures (many with one or both participants underage) are still safe? Just not as safe as it could be I see. Sounds like people breaking the law are getting punished but you know how once a law passes it affects ALL OF US, even the ones not harming anyone or breaking the law.
Actually, yaoi is quite illegal, perhaps even more so, because many people would find homosexuality more obscene than heterosexuality.
Your article covered all the points. The truth is it’s not lolita stuff that’s getting out of hand, but the law (especially in some countries, for example, the U.S.). If it keeps going like this freethinking folk will all have to move out..
Hey, Calawain, do I read that PDF correctly in that he was sentenced to twenty years in jail for the whole business? I only read about a third of the PDF (I’m not even american, so all those juicy details weren’t really interesting for me) and I don’t mean to comment on the morality of whether or not something drawn can constitute obscenity in a punishable context, but surely 20 years is crazy!
Haha this is a great post. I’m learning and reading something interesting…but gov procedures did always annoy in the past during mandatory classes.
The end of LOLI?
20 years is pretty harsh though.
Don’t you think standards will loosen up though?
I mean look what they used to do in the past, jail sentences for even possessing “indecent” material.
Interesting point from the American perspective.
Up here in Canada, we had the landmark R. v. Butler case that dealt with obscenity, and later R. v. Sharpe in particular for underage depictions of explicit sexuality. Subject to a few exceptions (artistic merit, science/education, self-produced for own enjoyment etc) deliberate possession/accessing is an offence. One infamous case out West had a man convicted of importing hentai manga depicting the underage (Gordon Chin). Some more comments here:
http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/lawpoli/free-expression/edmonton-lolicon-arrest.php
In essence, it’s a question of law whether the ppl depicted (includes written words) are under 18 years old. If so, and no excuses, justifications, go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200…because drawings are EVIL.
>< Ouch….Our laws are always fluctuating it seems.
But to think, what if you’re that ONE guy out of everyone you practically know to get caught because “some bored post office officials decided to inspect it”. It does make me feel even MORE uneasy about my pornish materials and yaoi and such. Not that I didn’t practically realize this already, but to be reminded of the possible punishment. I think that as long as real people aren’t physically hurt, then it should be fine, along the lines of porn and fetishes; Really actually happening and unconsentual. So, all I think is that anything except actual rape, or pretty much. Along those lines. I’m sorry. I’m not good at this. Just my opinion.
btw, only if the participant in the sexual act actual already knew what sex was. (post above)
Great read (I try to follow everything best I can)
Your article jogged my memories about Alan Moore and his partner’ past work. I think it is called Lost Girls. (I have not had a chance to read it) But the three volumes consists of adolescent’ sexual experience. What if, Alice in Wonderland, Dorthy from the Wizard of OZ, and Wendy from Peter Pan had been real and grew up. There was some controversy about this book as being obscene. I do not have the actual work but did find some the comic panels. They do show explicit sexual acts. I guess my point is that it is not only confine to Japanese hentai or anime.
@Simon Tang
Yup, I guess the Americans would rely on artistic defence for that one. Who wants to be the Test Case and bring some underage drawings to US =0 Either be a hero and get judicial reform, or get a go to jail card…
@Calawain
I was contemplating this issue myself up here in the Northern Wastes earlier, and now am thinking about drawings as CP while doing my take home law school exam. The Canadian case law (Supreme Court of Canada) cites the reasoning behind classifying words/pictures as CP as it could be used to fuel the appetites of RL pedophiles, even if no real kids were used in the production. Up here, you had the really crazy cases of art galleries being raided cause a painting had kids’ privates (I kid you not). So, just like GTA IV, I guess animu/manga has the potential to turn citizens into gun-toting molesters. All you Canadians looking at explicit loli doujin commercially produced online, guilty!
Any more cool pearls of wisdom from your expensive law skool education, Calawain =) ?
I think the argument should not be why is porn allowed while loli hentai is not allowed or anything along the lines of that. The fact is they are all morally questionable, and there is really no stopping the law for choosing to pick on one or the other.
I’m not American so I may not have a well-informed opinion, but I think with such things open to different interpretations, it is hard to say whether it is right or wrong. Although free speech certainly is important, there is probably a limit to that if it is going to harm people although it may not be proven that it does.
Likely this is a case of grey areas and loopholes in the law and uncertainty among the people and the law in how to approach it. If people have sexual manga, it is just taking a risk, as is common in everyday life. Or there’s this saying, “You can do what you want, but just don’t get caught.”
Err, TRYING to keep this short, so here goes:
I think the golden rule should be that as long as it’s not public, it’s fine. This regards the person’s taste/fetish/whatever. Obviously I don’t mean he can go black van a kid in an alley, but I mean if the guy is into loli crap and has 500 gigs of it on his HD, go figure. As long as he isn’t blatantly showing it off in public trying to hit on preschool kids, it’s fine.
That said, the reason I’m going in this direction is because I believe in tolerance, but at the minimum level. If you like kiddie porn and people at college found out about you, I will not feel sorry for you when you get bashed at and hated on. I might not think it’s right if they start bullying you to an extreme degree, but I like a more honest environment where people CAN judge others based on preference and what not. Hell, you can say racism is being fought against, but it’s not like it’s ever going to truly go away. The stage where racism is at right now for MOST of the 1st world countries (aka NOT KKK areas and extreme prejudice parts) is realistically where I would like crap like this to be at. People will joke around, poke fun at you, maybe even ignore you and hate you; but they won’t go out of their way to hurt you. And as far as business conducts and such, they will still treat you equally, though their decisions toward you might be affected by their preference, but it’s not like the world is so objective in the first place.
It’s hard to explain right? I guess I just like the “internet” level of tolerance. The internet pretty much is as safe as it gets. Unless people try really hard or you willingly give up your security, you are safe. That’s how I think these issues should go. I mean, isn’t that how it is for gays and what not right now? You got areas where gay people are more welcome, you got groups of people who fight for the rights of gays even if they themselves aren’t gay, and you got people who go against the gays in either pro-active or silent ways. Internet wise, it’s just whether or not you are stupid enough to present yourself to the correct audience. Looks fair enough for me.
I mean, if you find yourself in a pedo bar talking with other pedobears, by all means be happy and show off those loli mags. But at the same time, it’s your responsibility not to walk into a daycare doing that stuff.
And cynically speaking, I do view things like fetishes and crap like this to be more of a “buffer” for the core rights of speech and freedom. And like any long term thinker, I value my longevity in my buffer, because I never want to take the battle to the stage where my “home” is. I am willing to rebuild that buffer area for those people there just so when the next “war” starts, I can use it again as a shield. And even if those people hate me for it, I am the majority and they are the minority. Beggers can’t be choosers, and if they wanted more, they’d have to earn it. If Bill Gates and 10 other billionaires in the states were Loli-cons, you’d bet your ass this bill will never pass.
Sorry if anyone was “offended” since I know these ideas aren’t exactly nice. But I think it’s the most optimistic yet realistic goal you could hope for. Obviously sides will strive for more, because they want things to go in their favor, but unless the opposition is just plain incompetent, this won’t happen. Of course, this is a one way concept considering there’s nobody to really fight back for these “gross” people anyway. Or at least that I know of. What the heck, I get my news from people like you guys and sites like Fark, what do I know?
You speak at a balance but your views are still filled with hatred. Honestly you saying you support discrimination and bullying. We have the right to be different from the rest of the world as long as we don’t hurt others physically. I mean what ever happen to everyone treated equally. I may not like you but I will treat you fair and equally. You obviously one of thous people who never been follow in the store by the white clerk or had sue walmart for discrimination. Also Sex is natural part of life get over it conservative!
I actually like where this conversation has actually ended up.
Happy and respectful. Sounds nice to me. =3
It’s hard to have your fetishes, whatever they are and to still be respected. I’ve somehow done it pretty well with people I know and they still love me for who I am, but I DEFINATELY know it’s hard. Keep it private, or tell ‘em. You have to weigh the options and see if you can or not. They love me anyway because I’m pretty nice to people personally and they know that’d I have odd fetishes every now and again. Not exactly loli though. But still, slowly meeting different people can sometimes make you open-minded and sometimes the opposite. People are how they are and we can’t exactly change them, so just be careful with your fetishes. KIND of like what ‘D=’ was saying. But what ‘kanzaki’ is saying is true. Just don’t get caught by the wrong people. But be open and happy with your kind of people.
Calawain: This post you have brought up is going to have some legal repercussions everywhere.
Canadians, as far as I know, have been known to restrict even imports of materials so long they can identify them as “manga.” As what my Canadian friends told me, manga = porn, and it’s unlikely the customs officials are going to shake off this mentality for years to come.
So, while I may sound like a bee in a hornet’s nest, and say, “Why not? Those bloody ‘loli’ drawings are tempering the lines of taste,” (politically conservative when it comes to decency), I think it’s fair to say that the case surrounding Whorley (unfortunate-sounding name, eh?), meant that he deserved to be jailed for it.
As for others, the saying goes, “let sleeping dogs lie.”
Excuse me, but my presence can be construed as being in bad taste, and no one would even dare say that to my face until I get shot in the face, so…
I think the problem is not of free speech, but of human, ahem, intolerance for all things different. The free man is not afraid of anything new and different, and sometimes seeks to understand it if it is good or not bad enough.
AS for Whorley, like you said, he was a bona-fide PEDOPHILE, and chose to be one. We can’t change his mind. Though I have to question some of the methods. Sometimes, even when a man has been justly punished for his wrongdoings, society punishes the guy further but castigating him.
Still, disobeying the law seems like the final nail in HIS coffin.
@Omo
No, this was just something I did on my own for the blog. I took my Constitutional Law classes last year, and my area of specialty (Wills, trusts, estates) is completely unrelated~
@Lubczyk
So do you think people should go to jail for 20 years for reading Knj? I think it’s disgusting stuff but I don’t think it should be a crime to possess it.
@Christina
I wouldn’t feel too safe, I think that because the content involves underage homosexuality it has an even greater chance of being found “obscene” by a jury. People are much less tolerant in general of homosexual sexuality compared to heterosexuality.
@Fnord
He was sentenced to 20 years for more than just his loli hentai. First he was a previous child porn offender. Then in this instance not only did he have a lot of loli hentai, but also possessing real child porn and sending dirty child porn text e-mails. But do I think 20 years is excessive for porn? Yes.
@Riceisnice
I wouldn’t doubt it would loosen up over time. If only for the fact that the “community standards” used to judge obscene change over time.
@Cdn Delta
Yeah I remember hearing that Canada is pretty harsh with the virtual CP and that they inspect a lot of stuff you import. And actually mere possession of loli hentai is not illegal, however downloading it over the internet or other ways of receiving or transmitting it are.
I’d completely disagree with the notion that if it’s fake CP it still encourages pedos. Anyone who is on 4chan enough will realize that the vast majority of lolicons have no interest in 3D girls, it’s strictly animated/drawn lolis. And frankly, a pedophile is a pedophile, and they are going to get their hands on the stuff regardless. Don’t you want them to feel safer about drawn CP so they are more inclined to use that (which doesn’t harm real children) then actual CP?
@Kanzaki
Well it’s a fight to determine how we find those gray areas. And it’s also a fight as to whether we should really judge others on it. There’s a strong spirit of privacy in this country, where if you aren’t harming anyone else you should be able to do whatever you want in the comfort of your own home. That brushes up against the moral Puritanism that has been around since the founding of this country.
@Catface210
Don’t need to apologize for having an opinion =)
@The rest
I’ll comment after work, I gotta get a move on before I’m late!
I apologize for tl;dr’ing because this seems like an insightful post (with insightful comments too), but I’ve already raged too much over the issue. The only real thing I’d like to say is:
THIS IS NOT A PIPE.
THESE ARE NOT REAL CHILDREN.
Really, if anything, starting a shit storm over IMAGINARY CHILDREN only belittles the real victims out there, the real children.
I am not a law student, but I think, in USA is case-based law?
I am German and here the highest court can only force the parliament to make a law for a special thing or decide if a law is actual working with the Basic Constitution Law. The president is my country has also the duty to stop every law, that is against the BCL. You cannot be punished with a non existend law – but war crime.
In Germany, like in every country, there is a censorship working for this cases. It is just against the law to own this stuff I think – and pictures are censored (especially for underaged and because of racism and others) but the punishment mostly isn`t really sever, it will get taken away as far as I know.
For owning child porns, it is something around 5 years of prison? The law isn`t full of revenge in this case . but changes are in progress. The problem here is the attempt to ignor the fact, that people actually do this stuff. The bigger the fuss about a thing, the more it shows, that it isn`t under controle.
Well for not showing a wrong picture: movements, phrases, signs, demonstrations on special dates (at special places) and pictures, which refers to nationasocialism (many of them are allowed in the US and in many european countrys) are strictly forbidden.
Different countries, different ways.
I think emotions need to be cooled for the moment here. Kiri, apologies in advance if I’m somehow taking potshots at you.
The crux of Calawain’s posts is that, between the lines of erotic depictions of non-existent minors in most lolipedo pornography, and depictions of minors in non-erotic poses, the court ruling has decided that yes, those drawings of ero-lolis are illegal.
But it was the nature that Whorely (intentionally spelt, to spite the f*** out of his face, and to condemn him to the Sun) had a history of real-life pedophilia prior to these charges, that the courts might have unintentionally blanketed depictions of non-existent ones as also in need of protection. In short, this case was brought upon the circumstances surrounding the idiot that the courts decided, this guy needs to be jailed.
If we’re going to rail upon “WHY ARE WE PROTECTING SOMETHING THAT’S IMAGINARY,” we might as well rail it up to the RIAA/MPAA, too.
BTW, the courts also found purely textual depictions of child pornography as materials of child pornography. WTF so I write a text about jamming Fuuko in, child pornographic material?
That depends TP, I mean, even in the context of the fictional story of Clannad, how real is Fuuko? Which Fuuko are you hooking up with? I was left a bit in the dark as to the nature of things personally.
Wait, you serious that it’s only textual and not even manga or doushinji or something? LOLOLOLOLOL.
GET READY MMO NERDS, YOUR CYBARSAX IS GONNA COST YA! No more wizard’s sleeve action!
The US is getting mighty stupid if they’re gonna charge a guy 20 years for drawings…
Once upon a time, there were moral values, and the religions that grew often happened to enforce these values ; but when religion lost its power, some values faded, others got attacked.
However, in what had become a free world, some people still believed in a moral system, like others believed in God. But these people often clashed with non-believers, which led to TV debates on whether it was right or wrong to put chocolat in your rice, or whether it was simply an individual choice.
Some believers, as they could not stand the horrors of individual choices decided that some choices they didn’t like were not only immoral, but also offensive ; their argument ? They had dire consequences. For instance, video games were, at first, found to make children comatose and epileptic ; then, it was discovered by the gaming and family gurus that stealing a car in a game would make children under 18 do it in real life.
In a matter of years, killing sprite with your mouse could have you charged with murder ; who was to decide that God hadn’t put a soul in those pixels like he had put one in people with green skin (as many believers discovered with dismay) ?
All this is a grand joke ; what we do in our own private time with ourselves is our own business. Then what if I have fun killing non-existent people (you’d better stop hurting that punching bag real quick too, I heard him moan) and get high on non-existent octarine-haired lolis getting totalled ? Are they saying I might do it IRL ? Is this not a trial based not on fact, but on my unknown intentions ?
Regarding that “as long as it isnt Art” close, it’s so stupid I can’t even say anything. They can’t even define clearly “obscene”, yet they claim to be the ones who get to judge what is of value and what is not ? Preposterous. They might has well declare I have the authority to write laws because I hate cheesecakes.
aww 4th circuit F me *truecrypts all porn* …. what, I ain’t deleting it
@D=
Well, I believe in tolerance too, but there is a limit. I am willing to let other people indulge in their fetishes or whatever for the most part as long as it doesn’t harm me. And to be honest, loli hentai doesn’t really harm me or anyone else. I will take a stand against real CP though, with actual children. Viewing of such materials encourages further production which further harms children. That’s something I am against protecting. Other than that, people should be able for the most part to gather, be it on the Internet or in your “pedobar” if they aren’t harming anyone.
@TP
I did giggle when I first read the title of the case, an amusing last name for the content.
@DrmChsr0
You really can’t change his mind, or anyone else who has a fetish, for that matter. Certain things get people off, and that’s just the way they are wired. That being said, like I mentioned before if he wants to keep his pedo-ways to 2D I’m totally cool with that as long as he doesn’t go to 3D. I would say he deserves to go to jail for the 3D CP.
@Kiri
“Really, if anything, starting a shit storm over IMAGINARY CHILDREN only belittles the real victims out there, the real children.”
Well put, if a bit enraged~
@Mel
The US legal system is largely based on case law, similar to Great Britain and dissimilar to France. The system is very basically as follows:
Legislature (House & Senate): Writes the laws
Executive (President): Enforces the laws
Judicial (Courts): Interprets the Constitution and all other laws
@TP
The aggravating circumstances here of his real pedophilia may have helped things along, but the statute says what it says regardless, according to this court. From a hypothetical standpoint you shouldn’t need any real CP to go along with it, just like the other case I mentioned in Iowa.
As for the text, I didn’t spend too much time on that section but it was pretty amusing. To be honest though, people read porn stories for the same reasons they watch porn. Think of those stories in Penthouse and whatnot, or the thousands of erotic stories websites out there.
@Jubbz
20 years for drawings and real child porn, so only half as ridiculous
@Nemo
I was always amused by the video game arguments. So, how is moving a mouse around and clicking like shooting a real gun. Is pressing X on my PS2 to jack a car in GTA anything like stealing a car in real life? I think not.
@Adoggz
Just possessing it isn’t a crime, so truecrypt isn’t going to help you. Downloading it is the crime here.
what about children producing their own porn or something similarly arousing? *cough* miley *cough*
Some things:
1) Just wondering lol, the first pic if Fate Stay Night right?
2) loli isn’t bad in my opinion
3) That man was addicted to child porn. He should have gone to jail long ago
4) Somebody knows the status of that guy who ordered manga from Japan?
Hmm, I was hoping to find more comments from your co-writers especially the male povs.
Wow gotta love the hypocrisy that is america. You have shows like one tree hill that show high schoolers having sex, but thats not considered child pornography, I is extremely confuddled
.. some words to add to my previous comment:
I have done some research in the english Wiki:
The article in the Wikipedia “Law of Germany” summs it up well enough (as far as I know). And it looks like, France and Germany are both against case law. However, the legislature/executive/judicial branches differs between them due to the well known historical facts.
Would the decision come from a German judge, we would see it as a bothersome situation but it is not an actual law. It would mean for the parliament to “do” something about it.
interesting
Slowly, ever so slowly, the government will strip away our freedoms in the name of “protection” and force us to, legally, bend to their will.
While art sometimes imitates life, you have got to remember that art in itself is a window into the souls of the artists.
And these are disturbed people we look at. If they are wrong for drawing them, then we too, are wrong for jerking off to them. For by doing so, we show that we are just as disturbed as they are.
If there’s one thing I’m glad for, it’s that they focus their urges into art rather than show it in real life. Sure, it does not keep people from violating the law, but at least, it’s keeping them from doing even worse harm. It’s not the perfect solution, I admit, but one has to work with what one has.
I think the most ironic thing is that to enter most (or all) porn sites of any nature (whether it be real or hentai), you have to be 18 or older. This is obviously counter-intuitive since most hentai probably revolves around young girls in high school (uh oh) or college (ok that’s acceptable I suppose).
So, if the “Law” ever decided to crack down specifically on hentai manga, anyone and everyone would be anally screwed (pun intended). If you own hentai, then I guarantee you that at minimum, 80% of your collection depicts at least one minor (in other words, someone younger than 18), engaging in sexual intercourse. Furthermore, as I said before, in order to legally even view pornographic material, you have to be 18 or older yourself, and the paradox is if you ARE 18 or older, then technically your collection of high school kids having sex could constitute as child pornography. However, viewing pornographic material while underage is obviously a lighter offense than viewing underage pornographic material while being of-age.
I think the real issue with hentai is that regardless of the age of the characters, aside from obviously Loli material, every character looks like a genetically enhanced matured sex machine and obviously not representative of what real children look like; most women don’t even look like this in their 20s, much less in their teens.
@Calawain oh, but if I have an open wifi would that provide something like plausible deniability. in that they can’t prove that i was the one who downloaded it. they’d need other proof that it was me; like the files on my hd which aren’t there. it couldn’t be proved that it was i who downloaded it, and then maybe i get on a neighbor’s computer connect to my wifi download and hide a few files so i could point the law men in there direction. would that work?
oh uh Disclaimer: all of this is for the purposes of a legal exorcise. Neither I nor any person here would actually, or ever consider doing anything of this nature. *looks around nervously*(I think they bought it)
@Calawain: Actually that was pretty much what I said. I am not on the side of the prosecuted, but then again, I’m more on the line of “I don’t give a damn, he’s PROBABLY wasting oxygen anyhow even if DIDN’T indulge in this stuff” as I’m pretty much a jackass.
For the CP part, half baked effort makes me say, it’s illegal. Because like, DUH? It HARMS the children. And yeah like you said, watching it only furthers it.
Though there are exceptions, maybe…probably not…nah
I mean, I’m just saying, if in the crazy future you can MIND SWAP and Paris Hilton wanted to bang someone in the body of a test tube baby, WHATEVER. But that’s just me being insecure and not wanting some super nerd going HERE’S A INCREDIBLY RARE CASE TO PROVE YOU WRONG.
@Salyu: You do realize you can’t crack down on half of the first world countries right? Like I said, CP and whatever is just a buffer, the LAW ain’t stupid enough to attack the heart of sex. If it ever tried, it’d get raped by the tentacles of hentai before it ever hit real porn’s door.
If you really worried about this type of stuff, don’t be a fool and protect yourself. Download a copy of truecrypt (www.truecrypt.org)and install it on your hard drive that contains the content your worried about (as far as I know no one has been able to break the AES encryption format yet, and if the feds have been able to break it they wouldn’t bother letting that info get out over someone looking at questionable manga)
But make sure, you use a program, allowed in your country
. In many country (but as example Finland) (strong) encryption is seen as a weapon. In some asian countries, it is completly forbidden.
@<a href=”http://opinionprone.blogspot.com/”KiriMost eloquent argument yet, IMAO.
@Mel
O.o That’s just wrong. It makes me cry (figuratively) more than the potential banning of hentai.
Sorry that I didn’t have much to offer.
I’m not in favour of using law as punishment but rather to protect the public as well as the offender.
Only if a person isn’t hurting themselves or anyone else should they be allowed to do such things at their leisure. However, viewing child porn, rape etc. would in many cases support those responsible for such imagery and encourage the creation of more illegally produced imagery.
Hentai, luckily, is clean. No one gets hurt and people can enjoy their sick fetishes to their hearts’ content. After all, people have little to no control over what turns them on but since everyone has the willpower to override their instincts and control themselves, they can use porn such as hentai or their imaginations to relieve any sexual frustration they feel from doing so.
I think that pedo should be locked up if he won’t follow the court’s instructions and I personally don’t want his case to appeal because he’s not the kind of person I want representing hentai viewers.
Behavioral Therapy and behavioral reconditioning can change how the arousal system works. When a person has an unatural arousal it’s based on their belief system and that can be changed (though its not easy). The problem with perverted sexual stimulus is that after a while the desensitizing effect will eventually take its toll and the person looking at it will want to go after the real thing or look at something stronger.
The prison system in Washington State used to allow its inmates to have porn, but mental health professionals realized this could actually contribute to rape in prison, rather than help prevent it. Most of the men who look at porn are sexually objectifying the women in them and this can make the person more agressive at the least. Many inmates have too much bottled rage as it is and because men tend to keep their feelings bottled up and express them through sex (one of only a few outlets a “macho, tough guy” inmate will allow himself) a lot of what is expressed is anger, fear, or rage. A man who looks at tentacle rape for example has some powerful anger issues and only likes porn of women getting raped like this because its a passive-aggressive(by passive I mean not directed at the real source of his feelings) expression of his rage. In other words it’s not clean and he does hurt himself, along with continuing to re-enforce his desire for this very unhealthy practice.
To play devil’s advocate to your claims John: it’s money that supports people, not viewing. People’s free sharing of music is causing the music industry to lose money. Recently the same is happening with movies, video games.
I wonder why this principal wouldn’t apply here as well.
As for hentai: we often do not know what inspires the creators, what if the artist creating a hentai goes out and rapes women to inspire his drawing hand? We do not know.
Guys, it’s happening again, this time in Idaho instead of Iowa http://www.comicsreporter.com/index.php/idaho_man_pleads_guilty_to_owning_cartoon_images_of_sexual_acts_including_s/
What is the world coming to?
is simply watching hentai illegal? on the internet? for instance bible black or hell knight ingrid.
Do you think that they can track 4GB of porn/hentai back to a mobile device that changes IP adresses every other month and is formatted every six?