If you’ve watched enough of the two biggest mecha franchises you might have noticed that most mecha teams seem to operate in units of three, when they do operate in coherent units. But why units of three, why not units of four like modern fighter aircraft? Tanks offer a more varied model, where platoons have consisted of five, four, or three tanks depending on time period and country. Or is it just to make the leader of the unit look cool, having two allies back him up like some kind of badass yakuza boss? Gundam and Macross tend to use their mecha in different ways, even within their own franchises, so I began to wonder what would be the best explanation, and what would be the best real-world paradigm to fit mecha into. Much of this depends on how the mecha are used, the kind of writing and narrative a series has, and perhaps some historical influence and stylistic choices. With this post I put forward some thoughts on why the three-mecha unit is so prevalent.
First, some vocabulary
If we’re going to look at the kinds of small units seen in Gundam and Macross, we have to be on the same page as far as the terminology. The way fighters and tanks are grouped in English and in Japanese will have some effect on the consideration of the units, their structure, and their composition.
Platoon (tank) – a tank platoon is generally the smallest operational unit of tanks, made up of two smaller groupings called sections. In the modern US Army and Marines and the Japanese Ground Self Defense Forces, for example, one platoon consists of four tanks. But in the armies of modern-day Russia, Britain, and Israel a platoon consists of three tanks. The size of the platoon has shrunk slightly over time, from five tanks being the standard to four, and in some countries, three. Generally three platoons plus 1-2 commander’s tanks form a company, though sometimes it can be four 3-tank platoons forming the company, as in the German Army.
Flight (fighter aircraft) – Similar to a platoon, a flight is generally the smallest unit of fighter aircraft and consists of four aircraft. Since the end of WWII this has generally been the standard formation as it allows each section of 2 planes to cover each other (wingman covers the section lead.) Starting in WWI, the most successful formation was a 3-plane flight, called a Vic formation. However as planes became more maneuverable and their weapons more reliable, some air forces switched to the 4-plane formation, starting with the Germans in the Spanish Civil War and the Americans during the first year of US involvement in WWII. Today 4 is the standard.
小隊/shoutai (lit. small corps/unit) – This is the word used in the original Japanese title of The 08th MS Team (第０８MS小隊). Applies to both ground and air units as the equivalent of a platoon or flight.
Use of shoutai in Gundam and Macross
EMS-04 Zudah launched from the Jotunheim (left) and VF-25 Messiah from the SMS carrier Macross Quarter (right.)
Universal Century Gundam: The 3-MS formation has been and remains the standard for mobile suit forces throughout the Universal Century conflicts. Starting off with Char accompanied by two regular Zakus and Amuro being backed up by a Guncannon and Guntank (and later by two Guncannons) and continuing through the sidestories and into Zeta, the 3-MS shoutai is the standard small unit of mobile suit warfare. The Gundam franchise often puts the protagonist, usually a Newtype, out on his own to face down superior numbers or an enemy ace pilot, as happened frequently with Amuro and Kou. But when formal units operate together, it’s always in threes (the 08th MS Team, the Black Tristars, and Gato’s unit that attacked Konpeitou/Solomon are examples.) One case does stand out from the rest though, that of the elite Titans pilots during the Gryps Conflict. Piloting new, advanced model mobile suits, these pilots often operated in pairs instead of the usual 3-MS shoutai.
The MSC-07 Albion always launched its mobile suits in 3-MS groups except when losses forced Kou and Keith to operate as a 2-MS unit.
Zeon survivor unit from their defeat at Odessa, also 3-MS.
Jerid launches with his section lead as the Titans attempt to block the AEUG from landing troops on Earth. Typically Jerid was teamed up with another skilled pilot, who would rarely survive.
Alternate Universe Gundam Series: The alternate Gundam universes usually pushed the concept of the protagonist(s) fighting solo even more than many of the UC series, though unit organizations can still be observed, especially among the antagonists. Gundam SEED broke the mold in one respect, though likely not for reasons of tactics or realism. The ZAFT Kruze Team that infiltrated an Earth Alliance installation and stole four Gundams operated as a 4-MS unit, but often did not work together as a real unit should. Kira and the Archangel would not have lasted as long as they did had the four Gundams covered each other and worked as a team. My hypothesis for the 4-MS ZAFT team in SEED is that SEED was meant to broaden the appeal of the Gundam franchise and also retain the female viewership that Wing brought in. To that end, if you’re going to have a group of bishonen pilots, it is better from a marketing perspective to have the unit consist of an even number of pilots for easier slash fanfiction pairings…but let’s not look too long into that particular abyss. Gundam 00 seems to follow a similar pattern with Celestial Being’s 4-MS shoutai: an even number of units that often operate independently and rarely ever work together as two lead-wingman pairs.
Other units in AU Gundam series operated as 3-MS shoutai however. Union’s elite Flag Fighters unit was a 3-MS unit under the command of Graham Aker, and the Gundam Thrones were another 00 3-MS unit. Andrew Bartfeldt’s desert unit in SEED was a 3-MS unit, as well as O.R.B.’s Astray Team and the Dom team from Gundam SEED: Destiny. There are a few exceptions (Smirnov and Soma usually fought as a section), but by and large the 3-MS shoutai endures.
The poor Flag, it deserved to be in a better series than Gundam 00…
Macross – Space War One formations: The events of SDF Macross and Do You Remember Love have a bit of an ambiguous element to them due to the retconning done in DYRL. This extends to the unit compositions as well. In SDF Macross all the Valkyrie flights are 3-VF units, while in DRYL they are comprised of four fighters. Given Macross’s attention to detail regarding US carrier aviation, it’s rather odd that it started off with the obsolete 3-VF formation. This was changed for DYRL, although that movie also includes many scenes emphasizing the individual combat of Hikaru and Max. As we shall see in later Macross series, the standard Valkyrie unit is still varied between organizations.
Hikaru, Max, and Kakizaki in formation with the VF-1s in SDF Macross.
DYRL Skull Squadron, led by Roy Fokker, is a four-VF flight.
As the radar monitor indicates, all UN Spacy flights in DYRL are comprised of four craft.
Macross – sidestories, 7, and Frontier: Macross 7′s Diamond Force retains the 3-VF shoutai, but the other series either use the modern standard 4-fighter flight or use both 4- and 3-VF units. Macross Plus, while not concerned with unit engagements, does show Isamu with a single comrade fighting enemies at the start of episode one, suggesting a switch to 4-VF flights of which he and his section lead were a part. Macross Zero used entirely 4-VF flights for its normal and variable fighters. Macross Frontier certainly has the most interesting use of the two types of unit composition though. The SMS private military corporation flies its VF-25 Messiah in standard flights of four craft, while the Macross Frontier and Macross Galaxy UN Spacy forces are shown to operate their VF-171 and VF-27 as 3-VF shoutai.
Shin’s flight of F-14 kai Tomcats in standard 4-fighter formation, just before engaging a 3-fighter flight of MiG-29s.
4-fighter flight of VF-25 launched to cover the Macross Quarter as it leaves the Frontier fleet.
3-fighter flight under the command of Macross Galaxy’s Brera Stern.
The Appropriate Paradigm: Mecha as fighter aircraft vs mecha as tanks
If we want our mecha shoutai to make sense, then we have to consider which is the appropriate paradigm to build units around. 4-unit shoutai allow each unit to be covered by a partner, while 3-unit ones have been chosen by some real-world armies because they allow more guns from the company to fire while one platoon moves, or because smaller companies based on smaller platoons are more economical. The role and capabilities of mecha matter greatly as well. And then there is the ‘rule of cool’ factor of having two, often no-name grunts, backing up the boss.
Capabilities: Mobile suits in space and Valkyries in general have capabilities and missions much more akin to fighter aircraft than tanks. They are highly mobile, operate in three-dimensions, and frequently are deployed one shoutai at a time. On this count the fighter aircraft paradigm is clearly the most suitable for space-based MS and all VFs.
Ground based MS can be seem as different, especially if a show would actually show company-level operations. An MS company comprised of either 4- or 3-MS platoons would function in similar ways to a tank company comprised of either type of platoons. As the combat is not as quick and fluid as in space, the need for one unit covering another is not as great, though I tend to think that 4-unit platoons are a better idea. In this realm, real-world tank platoons would indicate that 3-MS ground units can make sense.
Company-shoutai maneuver: This depends on how much one strays from what’s presented on screen. If most battles are not massive engagements of companies/squadrons and larger units, then the 4-unit shoutai would make more sense. However, if we imagine that these battles do take place, even though they are not shown (or at least not presented as coordinated operations), then the 3-unit shoutai makes some sense since the lack of intra-unit cover can be made up for by company-level maneuver and coordination.
Rule of Cool: 3-unit shoutai definitely have the advantage here, since they very prominently display the leader as either the most skilled pilot (as with Char and his two backups) and/or as the obvious leader, the one with command (Hikaru in SDF Macross.)
One of the more plausible uses of the 3-MS platoon: ground combat.
Why? Possible Reasons for the Continued Preference for 3-unit Shoutai
Generally, I believe that there are two possible reasons for the continued preference for 3-unit formations despite the fact that they are not used in modern fighter flights and are not universal in tank platoons. History could have had an impact on the decision to choose 3-unit shoutai at the start of the Gundam and Macross franchises, which continued to varying degrees in later works. WWI and WWII, the era where aces became famous and the largest air battles in history were fought, had most countries using the 3-aircraft Vic formation for one or sometimes both wars. Choosing a 3-unit formation might have been an attempt to connect to the kinds of exciting dogfights that took place in both World Wars. Furthermore, Japan continued to use the 3-aircraft formation throughout WWII, even after the US Navy had switched in 1941/1942 to 4-aircraft flights specifically to counter the more maneuverable Japanese fighters. Perhaps this historical tactic left some impression on Tomino and Kawamori. The other reason follows from the ‘rule of cool’ element mentioned above. Many of the series in each franchise are narratives centered around one specific character and often an enemy rival ace. By using the 3-unit formation, it elevates the leader above the rest and makes him stand out during the instances where he isn’t fighting one on one with his nemesis, this being especially true in Gundam.
35 Comments
Good job. I really, really like this post.
LOL in Robotech the trio is a universal number, manifested in the three-petal structure of the Invid Flower of Life.
Now you’re in for it:
Please do one for ‘naval’ or capital space ship formations (but that would mean you should watch Crest/Banner of the Stars and Legend of the Galactic Heroes; but I’ll be perfectly happy for a Macross and Gundam analysis) ^_^.
Thanks!
Invid Flower of LIfe? *googles* What is this? I don’t even!
I’m around halfway through LoGH, and have been for some time. I really love the show, but I just felt that I reached a good point to take a break from it for now. Will definitely finish it sometime this year, and maybe I’ll end up making a post on some of the naval tactics involved eventually. The Battle of Amlitzer being one of my favorites. I’ve read the manga version of Crest/Banner of the Stars, but have only watched CotS so far. As much as I like the cultures involved in that series and the characters, I wasn’t as fond of the combat. It was certainly interesting and innovative as far as sci-fi combat goes, but the cramped conditions that it often took place in kind of dampened my enthusiasm. Though maybe it gets more epic in Banner.
Unfortunately Gundam and Macross don’t really do big naval battles much though. Gundam doesn’t really put much depth into capital ships, sadly. Macross on the other hand is better, but what creativity they showed (especially in SDF Macross) is hampered by there rarely being two numerically comparable fleets fighting each other. I’d love to see either franchise do a Battle of Midway kind of scenario with lots of scouting and carrier-based raids against the other fleet (Gundam 0083 actually makes reference to the scouting during the Battle of Midway. The patrol craft that first sights the Delaz Fleet goes by the radio callsign Strawberry 5, the same as the PBY Catalina flying boat that spotted the Japanese fleet.) Or perhaps a more conventional fleet gun battle like those in WWI and in some places in WWII. The Battle of Loum was fought with a huge amount of capital ships, that might be a place they could start if Sunrise were so inclined.
It becomes really technical once you reach Banner. The Battle of Aptic Gate for me is one of the Great Battles of Anime History (if only we had more time to do posts like those).
Actually, Gundam ship battles are cursed with LOLTOMINO. You may just tear your hair out (I just tried to remember a few moments from Z, ZZ, and V that made want to throw my gunpla at the monitor).
The Battle of Aptic Gate in Banner of the Stars is a Crowning Battle Scene of Awesome for anime as a whole to me too. I like to remind people that it – two armadas of thousands or even tens of thousands of ships having at each other – is still shorter than some one-on-one battles in Dragonball Z and other shounen fighting anime.
I forget the exact numbers that were mentioned for Aptic Gate, but it was certainly more than just about any other visual space opera battle save Macross with its millions-strong Zentraedi fleets (there are certainly bigger literary examples, like the Lensmen series with its intergalactic war featuring planets used as projectiles), and it actually manages to give the impression of a vast confrontation while also ‘zooming in’ on the protagonists in their little assault ship.
On that note, ExecutiveOtaku’s point about later/alternate Gundam series emphasizing individual heroism is interesting – I haven’t seen any of the UC series, so I didn’t realize that Amuro and Char used to usually have two ‘wingmen’ like Hikaru in Macross. It’s a shame that the franchise has moved away from military realism a bit.
On Gundam Seed – I strongly suspect the ZAFT team was meant to evoke the five bishounen pilots from Gundam Wing (bear in mind that there were five of them to start with – one was killed during the infilitration mission). You could probably even map the characters between the two series with a bit of handwaving if you add Kira to make five (e.g. Athrun or Kira=Heero, Kira or Athrun=Duo, Yzak=Wufei, Dearka=Trowa, Nichol=Quatre, with Lacus as Relena for good measure).
I’ll have to give Banner of the Stars a chance then. The battle in the manga was very cool, but visually I’m sure it’s more exciting. It’s good to hear that the battles get more interesting than in the anime version of Crest of the Stars.
Amuro and Char don’t always have the wingmen with them, since there are often 1 v 1 situations, but it was common for Char to be accompanied by two MS for backup, even if Amuro usually dispatched them quickly. Amuro had backup from Kai in the Guncannon and Hayato in the Guntank (and later on when the war moved to space, a second Guncannon), especially during the ground combat in the middle 1/3 of the series. All the main characters in 0083 worked in 3-MS teams, as well as the EFSF and Zeon forces in 08th MS Team. It is a shame that the trend towards realistic units has changed, but in the newer UC series it remains to a degree. MS Igloo 1 and 2 featured 3-unit teams, and Unicorn showed a 3-MS EFSF team fighting against Queen Funnel Spam early in the first episode.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they went that route, though having Kira on the other side from them (at least until later on) broke things up a bit. Thankfully there wasn’t a straight Heero analogue character, but Yzak=Wufei and Nichol=Qatre were spot-on. Though I’d say Dearka was more of a Duo kind of character, talkative and relaxed for the most part.
Two quick comments to make on the series.
First, both the anime and the manga are based on a light novel series. IIRC, the manga came after the anime, as well, and is really just a very condensed retelling. I wasn’t ever too impressed with the manga. The anime definitely gives a much better feel for things.
Second, the anime coming after the light novels is important. The creator has stated that some of the things in the anime were made up without consultation with him, most importantly the involvement/loss numbers given in the anime. None of the loss/casualty numbers are based on anything in the novels, and frequently don’t even make sense when you compare them to each other, so should be ignored entirely.
It’s too bad Tokyopop handled the translations of the Crest books so badly. If they had done a decent job with them instead of trying to turn a series meant for 20-30 year-olds into a pre-teen/teen series maybe the sales would have been good enough for them to continue on to the Banner books.
Not much more to add but that the three fighter/mecha vic is also cooler to look at, it looks very pretty during parades and air shows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEkftpPTW4A&NR=1
A little long but it offers a visual to what you are getting at in the halfway mark.
True, visually it is appealing to have that symmetrical echelon formation. Thanks for the link, I’m a big fan of the Battlefield series and its intense attention to detail. I’ve already seen a couple, but not the Battle of Britain one yet.
From what I remember a VF-1 tactical wing is composed of 15 fighters. One CAG, two squadron commanders, four team leaders and eight tactical fighters. Thus the Vic Three we see in Hikaru’s Vermillion team.
In the Macross M3 Dreamcast game the Dancing Skull Special Forces team consists of Max and Millia operating on the cruiser Algenicus (It kinda looks like a Zentradi version of the Stealth Cruisers of Macross Frontier). Their adopted daughter Moaramia takes their job upon becoming a pilot. (She is the only daughter we know in the Kawamori timeline who is in UN Spacy. Komillia being a pilot in PCE games Macross 2036 and Macxrss Eternal Love Song is set in the DYRL-Macross II timeline)
Macross Digital Mission VF-X game presumably has six pilots with the small carrier Vahalla III carrying a VF-1, VF-4G, VF-11B, VF-17D, VF-19A and a VF-22.
Macross VF-X2 has the VF-X Ravens which a special forces group. Presumably the same size or bigger than a VF-1 squadron. The game focuses on Alpha Team which at times regularly Vic 3 and occasionally with a Mr. Expendable as a Finger Four team. The Saratoga II is a full sized carrier probably the same length as the Uruga class. So I’m guessing maybe around 70 craft like the Uruga.
Interesting to know the breakdown of a VF-1 wing, though with 15 fighters wouldn’t that more of a squadron size than the larger wing?
Since Macross M3 is on the DYRL-Macross II timeline, does that mean it’s entirely non-canon or only partly? Since Macross II is non-canon and all.
If we take the assumption that one Valkyrie = one Zentradi soldier, then the 15 fighter wing looks more like an infantry squad…
Macross M3 is in the regular Kawamori timeline. The only reason Moaramia isn’t with the family when Mylene was born is that she is in the military assigned on the Algenicus. While the Jenius family were all on the cruiser Red Moon commanded by Max when Milia gave birth to her seventh child. Moaramia is on year younger than Komillia but is a full blooded natural born Zentradi. She was a Zentradi rebel ace at six flying a Zentradi Variable Glaug, which is a VF for giants, but she got spanked by Max and Millia, micloned and taken home. Milia gave birth to her second child Miracle a year earlier. Guess Millia’s motherly instinct is kicking in. This the second time Max has brought a Meltrandi into the family by way of dogfight. Millia being the first. As for Moaramia’s personality from the sound of her VA think Mylene and loli Klan combined.
Macross 2036 and Macross Eternal Love Song is set after DYRL and decades before Macross II Lovers Again. Here unlike in the Kawamori timeline Komilia was born much later, in 2019 instead of 2011.
I suspect the discrepancy in Macross is due to tv viewers familiarity with it, which is why we see them use 4 man flights in the movies and OVAs.
IIRC, the original Project V in MS:Gundam was designed around a long range sniper unit (the Guntank), a mid range support unit (the Guncannon) and a close combat assaulter (the Gundam), basically it was two to fix, one to kill. It got messy later when they went into mass production.
Having even numbered teams might be better for travelling and bounding overwatch, if we are talking about ground units here, though my experience is limited in this respect. At least you’ll have more than one gun covering you as you advance.
You didn’t mention FMP here, but Mithril seems to operate in teams of three as well, at least the Urzu SRT operators (Mao, Weber and Sagara), their real world analogues being SAS troops (of 16?) or SF ODAs (of 12?). Being SOF types, they are probably more flexible than most line units.
What I have yet to see is how ACM tactics are applied in an air combat anime, like sending half the flight on a drag move to open up a rear aspect AAM shot, or a “chainsaw” (everyone in the flight does a launch and leave with an active radar AAM) done on a larger OPFOR aircraft formation.
Yeah, Project V had three ranges in mind for the MS, though they were prototypes and not explicitly designed to work in that sort of mixed 3-MS team. The Guntank design ended up being abandoned sometime before Zeta, with only a few Guntank IIs at Jaburo left of that design path. If you can mount powerful beam weapons of increasingly smaller size:power ratios, you don’t really need a big, slow MS like the Guntank to mount powerful main guns.
I haven’t seen FMP yet, but it’s not surprising that they use 3-unit teams. The prevalence is probably mostly down to ‘rule of cool’ with how the formation looks. If anything is going to use those real ACM tactics you mentioned, it will probably be Macross unless some fighter or sci-fi fighter anime suddenly shows up.
I am really not up that much on military tactics, so I have no comments there. But I do wonder, did other fictional works released around the time that Gundam and Macross started also primarily use three man/unit formations? It might not just be a historical link, but also just a plain popular trend at the time. Of course, once your franchise takes off, it becomes very hard to go against the archetype you’ve created, even if you want to for the sake of reflecting modern tactics.
Some Super Robot shows use the equivalent of a three-man flight that combines to form the Super Robot, e.g. Getter Robo (and its imitator Gekigangar 3 from Nadesico), Zambot 3, Ideon, etc. There’s also, of course, all the ones that use the traditional Five Man Band, like Voltron, Combattler V, etc. The original Gundam actually incorporates a few elements that might be found in Super Robot shows (the main character being the robot’s designer’s son, for example – I read somewhere that Amuro is a regular soldier in the novels), presumably to appeal to the same target audience. (I was looking up Super Robot shows on Wikipedia, and dear Haruhi there were a lot of them in the late 70s!)
Well that’s interesting. I was also talking about other mediums too, like television and novels. For example, in Star Trek, a lot of away teams are 3 man squads. A 4th man gets thrown in if he or she is absolutely required or going to die in 10 seconds. Any more than that and it’s probably a “special” episode where most of the rules are thrown out the window. I think it’s something about 3 man/mech/whatever squads.
The super robot connection is certainly a plausible one, especially with how the three Project V mobile suits were all of different designs.
As an example of different sized mecha units, Battletech and the MechWarrior games serve as a counterpoint. The standard Inner Sphere battlemech unit was a Lance of four mecha, usually grouped around the same weight class. The Clans on the other hand used the Star, which was typically five mechs (though occasionally it was three), and could vary in its weight class composition depending on the mission, the preferences of the commander, and what was available.
Actually, the Fluid-Four was shown to be obsolete during Vietnam in air-to-air combat with missiles. Usually, only the flight lead was in a position to call Fox Two, and the Number 4 ship tended to be vulnerable. The two-ship Loose Deuce and Double Attack became the standard for CAP and escort flights, first used by the US Navy. That said, strike flights still flew in fours, presumably to exploit defensive beam tactics.
Interesting, I didn’t know the specific names and breakdowns of the formations. I’ve just observed from documentary TV shows and what I’ve read online that four fighters (in two functional pairs of two) is the modern standard.
Interestingly enough, episode 25 of Frontier shows VFs flying in formations of 8 (two 4-man flights), although since these are likely VF-25s these are SMS fighters and non N.U.N.S.
That’s odd. Maybe they were just two closely flights? Or they were bunching up to better deliver concentrated salvos of reaction missiles since it would be more difficult to intercept all the missiles if a bunch are coming at the target at once. The SMS vs UN flight composition was one of the things in Frontier I never paid any mind to the first time around, but after looking at it again was an interesting contrast.
The rule of three actually holds true in Gihren’s Greed as well. All mass produced MS “units” roll out as a squad of three that act as a single unit while attacking but can be destroyed individually. However prototypes and the more powerful units like Gundams and Mobile Armors net you one single unit and tanks, fighter aircraft and the like come as a squad of 5.
Also all I remember of capital ship battles in Macross was the Macross slamming it’s fist into Zentraedi ships over and over for the Daedalus attack until Exedor basically said “Hey what if we have our own guys wait for them to do that thing with the fist and then counterattack and board em’”. After that I can’t really recall anything else.
The problem with Capital ships in Gundam is that after the early OYW and with the introduction of mobile suits they would primarily be used as MS carriers and for support and suppressing fire. Considering one Mobile Suit can easily sink a Capital ship (or 5 if you are the Red Comet) if it gets up close enough it’s also not exactly feasible to have capital ships get within firing range of each other to duke it out. Anyway the last and really only naval battle depicted in Gundam is in the first episode of MS Igloo with the Battle of Loum. That episode also does a pretty good job at depicting how exactly the introduction of the Mobile Suit spelled the end of then conventional warfare. After that it was no longer about who had the biggest guns and most nukes but about who had the fastest and most adaptable weaponry for war in wildly varying environments.
Macross does seem to follow the same pattern with cap. ships there serving as carriers as well and focusing on long range support. That said, it seems that cap ships in Macross are tougher then those in Gundam and we actually do get to see some decent ship to ship combat. The only time I recall seeing fighters that could really threaten cap ships in Frontier with the VF-27, the Vajra and full armor VF-25 with nukes. It also helps that cap ships in Macross are massive. Britai’s flagship is 4,000 meters long, (for reference, that’s as long, or longer than the Executor from Empire and Return), the Varauta flagship from Macross 7 is even longer (4,320 m) and wider. It seems the only reason we don’t see much close in ship to ship combat in Macross is that the ships are armed much like modern day ships – that is with weapon designed to take out opponents from afar.
Not to start a fanboy one-upmanship war, but the Executor is supposed to be much bigger than 4000m – more like 18000m, if I remember correctly.
My mistake, the SSD is indeed 19km long, I saw the 4000m figure in an entry for Super Star Destroyer” in the wiki and assumed it applied to Vader’s Ship.
Macross had one instance of tactics early on involving capital ships, more than Gundam’s basically complete lack of them. When the Macross engaged the Zentradi battleship sent by Britai near Saturn, they used a diversionary strike by its Valkyries and then waited among the rings of Saturn for the ship to get close before using the Daedalus attack for the first time. However the tendency of Macross to emphasize the ‘one big weapon’ of either the Daedalus Attack or the main cannon takes a lot of the tactics out of it in favor of big flashy explosions.
One thing about Gundam that really bothers me in regards to capital ships is how easily they are destroyed. I could understand a bit more beam weapons being able to take out a cruiser in one well-placed hit, but the kinetic weapons fielded by Zeon on nearly all its MS would not be sufficient to destroy a cruiser in just a few hits if the cruiser had any sort of armor. There was also the tendency to have ships blow up after only the bridge was destroyed. *Sigh*, I guess it’s just LOLTOMINO as Ghostlightning mentioned.
In fairness, alot of cap ships in Macross are armed with that ‘one big weapon’
I’m surprised nobody have brought up the fight the two ARMD putted up in the first episode of Macross which is one of the few capital ships engagement. Starting off with launching figthers, followed by rockets when closing in. Too bad they never got close enough to fire thier turrets due to being vastly outnumbered.
I did enjoy the brief battle the two ARMD had, especially since (for once) human weapons were not completely ineffective against an alien force. It really showed that the UN put some thought and preparation into confronting the threat they knew could show up any day. Unfortunately for them they either didn’t have the time to prepare a large enough fleet or never anticipated such a huge one showing up in the Sol System.
interesting
on the subject i took the lazy approach and wrote it off as the ‘four is death’ trope
Well.
Didn’t Alto Saotome lead a flight of four late in Frontier when he stuck with the Frontier Forces rather then going rogue with SMS. Him, The guy who piloted the EW Plane and two random redshirts.
Militarily speaking, 4 man flights allow every pilot to always be covered by a wingman and can be subdivided into two smaller elements. Having a wingman enables all sorts of useful aerial tactics, like the Thach Weave that the Americans used to great effect against superior Japanese planes during WWII.
However, I think there is also an aesthetic reason behind using a four man formation – I think the formation itself is dictated more by what sort of pilots are present in the series. Consider that Gundam 00 and SeeD – and to some extent Wing – all utilized finger-four deployments.
00, much like Frontier, features a small group of elite pilots in a quasi-military organization. Likewise, in SeeD, Athrun and his comrades deploy against the Federation with their four stolen Gundams. Deploying in an even set of four gives us some balance in terms of screentime between characters and dialogue between them; whereas as you note in a 3-man formation, attention is naturally very focused on the leader.
Oh, and 3-man fireteams are utilized for some tank or infantry platoons. Generally the idea behind it is that it is the smallest subdivision you can make in your forces, so it allows you to deploy more tactical units from the same pool as opposed to a 4-man team, although the disadvantages remain as you have noted.
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