When was the last time a Mahou Shoujo put lines from Faust in it?
Where to begin with Madoka 2? A lot happened in this episode, including a lot of character and world development. In my previous post, I focused a lot more on the aesthetics of the show, and more or less dismissed the plot, but after episode 2, I feel that Madoka has departed from the “standard” mahou shoujo plot more than I thought it had.
And, well, let’s consider the set up for Madoka, and the “rules” of the world so to speak. In essence, Kyuubey proposes a trade. If you become a magical girl, I’ll give you a miracle. You have to risk your life fighting witches, but you’ll get any one wish. This trade emphasizes one important aspect that normal mahou shoujo don’t have: Choice.
Choosing to live this life, or the other.
I can’t even remember the last time the protagonist of a mahou shoujo series ended up choosing to become a mahou shoujo. Instead, the typical mahou shoujo narrative forces the protagonist to be a mahou shoujo. Usually it’s the result of fate or destiny or something or the other, but the traditional narrative is rather clear: we’re not letting you choose.
Then what significance does this introduction of choice have upon the mahou shoujo genre? What it does is emphasize one major thing: What does it mean to be a mahou shoujo? I think this is broken down further into two components, specifically: 1) The identity crisis of a mahou shoujo, and 2) The “job” of a mahou shoujo.
I also believe that these questions are also represented by certain characters. We’ve seen two characters get an extended conversation scene with Madoka so far. First was Homura in episode 1, and second was Sayaka in episode 2. Both of these characters are, relatively speaking, extremely averse to the idea of being a mahou shoujo, but for different reasons.
Homura, although she is a mahou shoujo, really doesn’t want to be. In episode 1, she asks Madoka: Do you value the life you live? Are your family and friends important to you? Of course just by asking these questions, she reveals her fundamental worry about what it means to be a mahou shoujo. Just what do you have to give up in order to be one? What sacrifices do you have to make? The answer for Homura apparently is: your life.
Pray. If you become a mahou shoujo, there’s no turning back.
Back in my episode 1 post, I noted the annoyance of Homura whenever Madoka mentioned something about her name. I was rather confused by it then, but I think it makes a lot more sense now, especially in the context of the information we learned in episode 2. In essence, what Homura and probably Mami gave up is their family.
Episode 2 really brought this into focus, because the scene that emphasized Mami’s loneliness was placed literally within another one, where Madoka brushes her teeth with her mom. This relatively simple act was placed right into the forefront of episode 1, where the extremely close bond that Madoka has with her mom is emphasized. However, the fact that the scene explaining the rules of being a mahou shoujo literally bisects the teeth brushing scene is significant in that it brings into focus what Madoka has to lose if she becomes a mahou shoujo. Mami lives alone. We’re not sure why, but she does. Something that the cinematography really emphasized in this scene was just how empty the place was.
The camera slowly pans over a room of nothing.
Isn’t it sad living in such a way? Just imagine the place after we realize that Kyuubey is living with Madoka.
Imagine this shot without Kyuubey.
Homura may be different, but I think it’s more than likely that she experiences a similar situation, especially considering the question she asks. Something else that is emphasized here is the real dog eat dog mentality of being a mahou shoujo. It goes right along with the loneliness emphasized by the loss of your family and friends. Basically you don’t even have any friends in the magical realm to fight with.
Look at any recent mahou shoujo anime, and you’ll see the exact opposite. Fate starts out as an antagonist to Nanoha, but she ends up being her best friend. Same deal with Hayate. Hell, the final season of Nanoha emphasizes the camaraderie between mahou shoujo even further. The Pretty Cure series? Same deal. I think there have always been multiple Pretty Cures in every season of the series.
So in Madoka, being a magical girl means losing your friends, family, and you can’t even make new friends… What an unbelievable trade off. It’s made even worse considering that mahou shoujo are generally well off characters. Mahou shoujo don’t ever suffer from any family problems or anything like that. Often times, the only thing that’s wrong with them is a general lack of courage, which they find through becoming a magical girl. This sort of conflict between their “real” and “magical” life never really happens. That’s totally different in Madoka. In fact, it might be surmised that becoming a magical girl takes over your identity. You lose part of what made you… you.
You lose this.
And this.
Consider Homura. She constantly rejects hanging out with would-be friends to be a magical girl. In episode 1 she declines speaking with girls who want to be her friend in favor of speaking with Madoka. In episode 2 she declines going out for coffee with some girls to go track Madoka and Mami. She’s pretty much lost her ability to have friends. You can see the inklings of doom with Madoka and Sayaka as well. Twice in episode 2, the “fifth wheel” runs away from Madoka and Sayaka because, well, she can’t understand them anymore. Becoming a magical girl is… tragic. There’s really no other way to look at it.
But Madoka really doesn’t see it that way. She still has her unbridled optimism. She designs fluffy costumes for herself, she envisions that being a mahou shoujo entails helping people out and saving them from committing suicide. That’s her view of being a mahou shoujo. But is the world as pretty as she thinks it is? Apparently not really. Two characters function as foils to Madoka’s incredible optimism: Madoka’s mother and Sayaka.
Yes, Madoka’s mother. That’s not a typo. Consider this conversation:
Madoka: If you were told that magic would make any of your wishes come true, what would you d-
Madoka’s mother: I’d get rid of both of the chief partners at my company.
As terrible as it sounds, Madoka’s mother is a product of this dog-eat-dog world. The competition in the magical world mirrors the competition in the real world. What do you need to get by in this world? Looks. What do you need to get what you want in this world? Convince everyone in the company that you’d be great as president, and get rid of my competition.
What it’s like to be a class A bi***?
The world isn’t as pretty as Madoka thinks it is. She thinks it’s pretty because that’s all she knows, but other people know better.
Especially her.
Sayaka came out with one of the more surprising speeches of the show. I guess I really shouldn’t be surprised considering just how dark the world truly is. And the world really is dark. I’m going to go on a tangent here, but look at the architecture of the above screen shot. It looks like a utopia right? Now look at the shot below.
Is this the same city?
Something that Sayaka’s speech made me realize is the transition between the “real” and “magical” world. It’s the same deal as the first progression of screenshots that was in my first post, which showed this transition. The world slowly goes from pretty architecture, to a much more darker version, to…
This.
If you think the world is all pretty, think again, because it’s not. Sayaka knows this first hand. She knows the pain. She knows what it means to be hurt. But here’s the kicker: She isn’t willing to do anything about it. When she was talking about how ignorance is bliss, this shot came up:
Of some guy in a hospital bed.
In episode 1, there was a mention of Sayaka wanting to listen to some guy’s album. Putting two and two together, I’m guessing that this guy is:
From the OP.
Clearly there’s something going on here, but what is interesting is that even though she obviously knows that this guy is in pain, she apparently doesn’t think risking her life is worth using up her wish to help him. Ok now what I just said is maaaaaajor speculation, and I might be wildly wrong here, but for now I’ll go with this assumption.
If what I just said is true, and well, even if it’s not, Sayaka reveals out the mindset of pretty much every mahou shoujo to date: they’re altruistic. Relatively speaking at least. Mahou shoujos want to help people. That’s basically the reason for their existence in the first place. You don’t have a magical girl who doesn’t want to help other people. That’s an oxymoron. But something interesting that happened when the “job description” of the mahou shoujo was laid out is that the emphasis was placed on the wish and dangerous aspect of being a mahou shoujo. In fact, the only mention of altruism was the throwaway line that “Witches are the reason for some unexplained murders and suicides.” Seriously? That’s it? Since when did being a mahou shoujo mean being selfish?
Wouldn’t this be the POINT of being a mahou shoujo, not a side note?
Now a lot of what I said so far has to do with the questions that Shinbo raises and the conflicts that he points out, but what does it all mean? Well the jury is apparently out on that one. KylaranAeldin from Behind the Nihon Review and I had a great conversation about the mahou shoujo series recently, and most of it was in reference to his post. Of course the major question that he asks is: Is Shinbo really doing anything with the mahou shoujo genre?
And to answer that question, we need to know what the mahou shoujo genre is all about. A quote from Kylaran’s post:
… narratives for mahou shoujo anime have largely remained the same. Schoolgirls, charged by chance or destiny to protect themselves and the world around them, must rise to the challenge by overcoming their own initial hesitation, doubts, and worldly troubles. By doing so, the girls reaffirm the importance of their realities in two ways. First, after each transformation they return to their normal selves; in no way does the magic permanently force them to change outwardly. Second, through saving the world they imply that the best option, rather than change or destruction, is to leave the current world as is. In essence, the narrative structure of mahou shoujo reaffirms the superiority of the status quo, despite having some overtones of empowerment in areas of gender and consumption. It is a celebration of the possibilities for self-improvement in a mundane, everyday setting.
In other words, what the mahou shoujo genre affirms is that the normal world is better than any other. Does Madoka affirm this point of view? That will be largely contingent on how the story ultimately ends. But as it goes right now, I have to admit, the normal world seems to be far more appealing than the magical one. But what’s different about Madoka, and why I’m inclined to think that Shinbo is doing something here, is the completely different mechanics that the world of Madoka is run by.
What does Shinbo need to do to make Madoka a masterpiece? He doesn’t really need to change the message. Far from it. Yojouhan Shinwa Taikei took a rather cliche message, but it stated that message in such a beautiful way that it became a masterpiece. What Shinbo needs to do with Madoka is something similar. If he can create a wonderfully optimistic piece out of the pessimism that he’s put in place beginning with these two episodes, I’ll give Madoka the title of masterpiece. At least in my books.
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Just a note, but Gen Urobuchi is the one writing the script, not Shinbo.
He’s writing the script, but he didn’t come up with the original work to begin with. There’s a difference. It’s kind of like the difference between the “Original Character Designer” (Aoki Ume), and the “Character Designer” (Kishida Takahiro).
The script is indeed being written by Urobuchi, who is known, among other works, for writing Black Lagoon, Fate/zero (a prequel to Fate/stay-night), and Saya no Uta (a horror VN).
Also, magical girl animation has always been fairly heavy in tone and plot – consider, for example, the predecessor (mother?) to most modern magical girl series: Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon, which also featured quite grim situations, real character death, and a considerable deal of violence and blood (censored in most Western releases) for what was ostensibly marketed as a young girl’s show.
The genre has always had an underlying sense of the otherworldly – even if not presented as outrightly horrific, there’s still an air of mystery and whimsy in the same vein as say, Lewis Carroll’s Alice in Wonderland. Even the more light-hearted series, like Cardcaptor Sakura, deal with heavy issues and rather intense situations in comparison to many other shows targeted at children.
Mahou shoujo in general have had a curious shift in tone during its long run as a genre. Sailor Moon generated an extremely interesting period of Shoujo/Mahou Shoujo (that’s shoujo as a genre), but the recent trend in mahou shoujo has kind of pushed away from this trend, and has marked its target demographic as children, and at points Otaku. The mahou shoujo genre has diversified immensely since its inception, but the core of mahou shoujo animes have always been their optimism. In the end, everything works out.
But what’s been incredibly absent from the mahou shoujo genre (at least to my knowledge), is a far more pessimistic side: that being a mahou shoujo might be THE ultimate sacrifice. The traditional narrative states that being a mahou shoujo is a bit like a bildungsroman. Everything is just a giant vat of development for the protagonist. But what if it isn’t? What if in the end you lose everything to become a mahou shoujo? That’s special and unique, but whether that actually turns out to be the case is up in the air.
Okusama wa Mahou Shoujo is the last mahou shoujo series I watched that seemed to shed a different light onto what it means to be a magical girl. It was largely overlooked by the blogosphere, but its aging protagonist, who couldn’t part with the world she had helped preserve and build, gave it a remarkably melancholic tone. Not to say it is anything like Madoka… Okusama is much lighter… but still, there’s an approach that offers an answer to “What does it really mean to be a magical girl?” in both.
The original story is by Gen Urobuchi too, Shinbo is just directing and had no involvment in writing the story,in a interview he said he read the script,liked it and only made a couple minor changes.
If he was adapting a story,the original person that came up with it would be credited someplace (like the original chara disigner is) for exemple with fractale,even if there’s no manga or novel,the concept was made by Azuma Hikori and the scripts are being written by Okada Mari,both are credited.
So this is fully Gen Urobuchi’s story , shinbo’s just adding his visual style.
It most definitely isn’t, because first Shinbo said that he wanted to work on a mahou shoujo anime to a SHAFT producer. Then the producer in question made the decision to not adapt an existing work, so Shinbo could have more discretion in terms of how he wanted the series to progress. AND THEN Gen Urobuchi was brought onto the team. Shinbo most definitely played a major role in how Madoka turned out.
Furthermore, on the Madoka website, the creator of the series is listed as “Magica Quartet”. I still have no idea who they are, but at the very least it implies a group effort to come up with the series. Pair that up with the timeline provided above and it’s clear that Shinbo had a major impact on how Madoka turned out.
Magica Quartet = Shinbo×Urobuchi×Aoki×SHAFT, if I’m not mistaken.
I was inclined to make that assumption too, especially considering that those four people/groups are the ones that have “comments” in the staff credits on the Madoka page. Still unsure though. If it is true, well then Shinbo definitely had something to do with how the series turned out
When you mentioned the lack of altruism, it made me think that Madoka is to the Mahou Shoujo genre what MazinKaiserSKL is to the Mecha genre. From good guys on the side of justice to “We fight because we want to. The words Just Cause mean nothing to us.”
Lol that sounds far more like something Nanoha would say. But I’ve never seen MazinKaiserSKL, so I wouldn’t know.
I didn’t watch Nanoha, but I have a feeling you misunderstand me. Not as in willingly fight bad people, but as in a pair of ruthless bloodthirsty badasses blowing shit up into epictastic oblivion.
Oh oh ffffffffffff lol. That was terrible on my part. Now that view I’m not sure if I agree with. I highly doubt everyone in Madoka is fighting without a purpose in mind.
Funny how Mami’s exposition on the ‘rules’ that govern being a Magic Girl in the world of Madoka Magica casts a rather grim light on what was supposedly a light and fluffy show. If you read around, you’ll see the references to Goethe’s FAUST all over this episode (in the supposedly cryptic runes and the incidental quotes in the background). Also, one gets the feeling that Mami and Kyubey aren’t REALLY telling the whole truth about the Witch Hunts, or the true natures of the ‘witches’ (the one in this episode was apparently named Gertrude).
Grimdark vibes all around, and I should know, since I’m a follower of the Warhammer 40k franchise.
I’m still uncertain as to the significance of the Faust passages placed throughout, and they make little sense when taken out of context, but the first major passage (when we see the woman cross the threshold) is decidedly a passage about the destruction of the world, while the second (which we see when Madoka + co cross the threshold) is about the reconstruction of the world. I’m simplifying it A LOT, but the message is more optimistic in favor of the magical girls. I dunno though, take from that what you will.
And as for the apparently evil Mami and Kyuubey theory, I really have no comment. There’s little in support for or detracting from the theory. But I haven’t watched the series with that point of view in mind, so if you have more evidence/interpretation in favor of it, I’d be happy to hear it.
Their power source is supposedly “purified” by whatever that seed the Witches leave behind. What happens if they can’t purify one? Are Witches failed Mahou Shoujo fallen into despair?
This raises the question of the nature of mahou shojous. they seem to rely on the destruction of the witches for their own survival. What if there were no more witches to purify them? What would happen to them? And why would something evil purify something good in the first place?
That might not be true. The dimming of the soul gem might be related to the actual use of magical powers, in which case if witches didn’t exist, magical girls wouldn’t all die out or whatever. Both Mami and Homura have used their Soul Gems before, so that might cause the dimming. These dynamics are largely unknown, and I couldn’t draw any conclusions from what we know, so I just didn’t speculate about it
yes, they are:p. it is said in episode 9 and the end of episode 8.:x
After reading this entire, it makes me feel that this series has a lot to give and really does change the idea of Mahou Shoujo shows. We already know that Sayaka and Madoka will become Mahou Shoujo regardless but how much of a impact on their lives will it have? Will there be a fight between all 4 girls? and How does all of this lead to Madoka’s dream from the beginning? This excites and frights me as I keep watching now.
Yes yes… I can’t wait for next week’s Madoka
So many unanswered questions, and so much room left to either royally screw this up or make it into a wonderful anime.
I think this is the longest post I’ve ever read about a single post on anime. There’s a lot of good stuff here.
First, since we’re not too sure the situation surrounding Homura and Mami, we’ll have to see if being lonely is part of their job, or if maybe the anime wants to portray it as a part of the human condition. By juxtaposing Madoka with the two girls, it may provide an interesting point of comparison.
Second, I think that loneliness may become an important theme in the show. Gaguri mentioned this in his comment on my Madoka post, which I have started mulling over. It’s definitely one aspect of the characters’ psychologies to look out for.
Third, the main reason for my pessimism is the opening sequence, which seemed to foreshadow the standard mahou shoujo end: everyone bands together and fights against the evil enemy. Of course, Shinbou could take this and completely put it into context while Urobouchi weaves an intriguing tale; but, since all I have to go on is what we’ve seen so far, the first two eps don’t feel subversive.
But that’s the thing about narratives–what appears at first takes on a different meaning once we realize what the creator is trying to say.
Yeah the situation actually surrounding Homura and Mami are rather mysterious, but just considering how they’re presented, they certainly do seem lonely. It was just something that especially stuck out for me, especially considering how much time we’ve spent focusing on Madoka’s relations with her family (and especially her mother) and her friends.
I’m still unsure as to what to think of the dream sequence at the very beginning of the series. The interesting thing here is that it’s just Madoka and Homura, and what they’re fighting against is… Something. There’s a lot of strange and random imagery there as well, including the giant tree, the city in the sky, the street light, and of course the structure that Madoka came out of. I suppose we’ll eventually gain the information to deconstruct the beginning, but for now it’s just a giant question mark in my mind.
And there’s still a lot that can happen with the rest of Madoka. I suppose what I’m doing here is laying down a groundwork for any future discussion, whether it ends up going the way I think it will or if it doesn’t. At the very least it’s an interesting record of what I used to believe was going on, which will be interesting to see how the show changed my expectations ^^
I like to think that something new is happening with the genre through Madoka. Honestly, throughout the first two episodes, I’ve been feeling sort of fairy tale-esque. You have most fairy tales that we let little kids see, the Disney forms and all, and then you look at the source material and it’s not nearly so child-ready. To me, Madoka is the reverse. It’s like they took the magical girl genre, handed it to Tim Burton and told him to have fun. And he did. Instead of the original being the darker one, the new creation is the dark one.
The mahou shoujo genre has never really been pure to begin with. The “otakuification” and “childrenification” has largely been rather recent. You might even view Madoka as returning the mahou shoujo genre to its roots, but I think there might be something completely different going on underneath everything. We’ll have to see.
Shinbo tossed in some very dark moments in Nanoha too. Fate’s visit to her mother is is one of the most disturbing scenes I’ve ever watched in anime, and in the things Precia said to Fate at the end are also very disturbing.
True, but this is a different kind of dark. Just some dark elements here or there isn’t atypical of mahou shoujo series. In fact, there’s quite a precedent for it.
when I watched Mahou Shoujo shows… I was reminded on how this shows appeal to children, But as I watched this one… Well, I was awe by the substance of this show… mysteries are being resolved and I think I will not see a stereotype in this faction.
Overall, I think I will watch it until I finish it.
so, bringing over my comment from the previous madoka post because i don’t think anyone noticed.
“has anyone taken note of the whole emergency exit sign thing? it seems to be a recurring symbol of some sort but whatever it’s supposed to mean is going way over my head at this point.”
also, i looked it up, and there are 5 producers involved in madoka, all of whom are not shinbo. but i’m willing to bet that they had at least received some input from shinbo or created the anime with the purpose of having shinbo insert his own style into it.
The animation style is Shinbo’s no doubt. And I really don’t think that he would just sit around to add his artistic flourishes either.
And as for the emergency exit sign thing, yes there were shots of it in episodes 1 and 2. I have a feeling that they’re very, very literal symbols. And I mean VERY literal.
Gosh, you sure point out the details well— I usually TL;DR over posts this length, but that was interesting~
In many ways I can’t help but feel that this is Shinbo doing commentary on the entire Mahou Shoujo genre. We all know it started with quite a bit of a dream elements to it, with all the “I’d be awesome if I could—” hooks, but to show the dark side on becoming a mahou shoujo and that the very thing female audiences this genre was originally targetting “wanted” isn’t necessarily good— maybe.
…and Altruism is definitely the defining attribute when it comes to prerequisites to Mahou Shoujo xD even the ones that begin as antiheroes like Fate are extremely kindhearted in nature~
Haha thanks! I assumed that the length was a bad thing and would just deter people, but both you and Raph from BorderlineHikkikomori haven’t taken issue with it, which is nice ^^.
The time at which Madoka Magica is being aired makes me think that it’s being targeted far more towards Otaku. I really don’t think that young girls would stay up to 1am to watch this haha.
I am getting a massive case of “bad feeling have I” with regards to this show it is obviously dark but how dark remains to be seen. I wonder if the witches are maho shoujo who have simply lost all their light and now get preyed upon by those who still have light. Perhaps a sort of Highlander scenario where there can only be one. Still I wonder what fate awaits those who don’t get their wishes granted, do they simply go on with life or do they give up something more when making the contract.
The eventual loneliness is quite apparent but I wonder if Mami’s parents are simply away or if their absence is the result of something much more sinister.
Yes I’ve heard that Witch theory come up before, most likely triggered by the Soul Gem/Grief Seed connection. So far, I’m not sure if there’s any real connection, but it’s possible.
And I think your answers about Mami’s parents are answered in episode 3
Wow. Lots of good discussion going on here. I might be over thinking things but the fact that the school is made of mostly glass and the opening in the bathroom also strike me as interesting. In the school everyone can always see what everyone else is doing good behavior is not expected but enforced through the constant sense of ‘someone’s watching me’, the classroom’s also somewhat resemble cages. The opening of this episode starts in a room full of mirrors as Madoka reminisces on Mami’s words and whether she wants to be a magical girl it is quite literally a room of reflection
Ah nice theory about the bathroom. Then again, it does raise the question of whether the reflection really is only “skin deep” as Madoka’s mom would put it :3
The classroom idea is interesting, but I’m still unconvinced about attaching too much significance to it. I can’t really see it yet as anything but an extension of the architecture.
It’s about drugs. The main character comes from a messed-up family. She meets some weird-looking people offering things that grant the feeling of power and happiness. As the characters get into the thing more and more, they become isolated from everyone else. Then the happy world becomes darker and darker. In order to maintain their happy world, they have to find other girls to sell their things too. Etc. etc.
Sound familiar?
About drugs? Really?
I think you’re describing the otaku watching this show?
Shi*ty real life -> Watch anime, Read manga, Play games, Spread the hobbies-> Nothing to show for it in the end
Oooo. Are you a troll? This is very exciting.
But to answer your question, drugs do shit to people that anime cannot match. There are horror stories of otakus, but the horror stories of addicts are worse.
Also, btw, I haven’t actually seen any of the episodes because I’m not sure yet if it’s worth my time. But based on the reviews that I have read, and that you have read too, it appears like this show is about drugs/addiction.
i can safely said u are highly misled. please watch the show before you make a conclusion. thank you.
Great post for a great episode of a great show.
Apart from all that has been said here, Madoka’s Mom is also an interesting character. She is clearly a highly succesful career woman, and quite ambitious at that as she seems to have real fighting chances for the top spot in her company. On the other hand, 1st episode has shown her husband being at home at least until Madoka goes off to school and preparing everyone’s breakfeast while wearing the apron, THE ultimate symbol of the housewife ! I am willing to bet this guy is unemployed, and if so it is an uncommon reversal of the stereotypical family unit roles.
Also an interesting parallel between Madoka and her Mom: while the former dreams of fluffy dresses for her Mahou Shoujo transformation, the later considers her appearance as one of her main weapons. Dressing up and applying her make-up is defintely NOT a game for her as it still is for her daughter. Madoka is still very much a child, which is obvious but is nicely brought up this way (among others).
P.S.: The people here are awesome, in case nobody ever told you ^^ I enjoy as much the episodes themselves than reading the posts and their comments here later on. Keep it up.
Yeah I pointed out the family strangeness in my first post, though I’m not sure if it’s just a curiosity or if it’s supposed to mean something.
And about the clothing thing, there’s another another interesting point here, as you have to wonder if her dress design is influenced by her mother’s comment to dress in a more flashy manner. Just food for thought
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