Many people have been giving me the stares ever since i proclaim that I really dislike Fuuko (or Kotomi in a certain extent now). I always tried to pinpoint the dislike but I always have trouble. Reading Crusader’s entry on fanservice finally gave me the idea why I really dislike Fuuko and the fans’ reaction toward Fuuko. As a partial reply to his entry, I think that Kyoto Animation’s portrayal of Clannad’s girls bordered on the ridiculous with Fuuko and Kotomi. This is the quote from Crusader shown below.
I firmly believe that while aesthetics play apart, stupidity is the greatest killer of beauty. I am not so shallow to think that having a nice decoration is sufficient. Louise, Christina, and Sumeragi of Gundam 00 are among the most recent offenders in this case. Sure they are all lookers, but Louise is useless, Christina a craven coward, and Sumeragi a heretic who has blasphemed against centuries of naval tradition (My views are heavily influenced by Prussian ethics so it is blasphemous to me, even if you find such flaws as “moe”). Starfish girl from Clannad for me is about as interesting as watching some one picking their nose.
I am not going to go on a tirade about how Fuuko is acting mostly retarded compared to a normal high school girl. However, I do have some major qualms on the consideration that her retarded behavior is considered moe. I do not have an answer for it, but I really want to know why people doing stupid things is considered moe? I cannot even fathom or figure out why everyone seems to want in to the “Starfish Alliance” because the only place for me is faraway from her.
Yes, I am somewhat flaming the idea of liking a character that acts retarded (unless you can try to prove to me that she’s NOT acting retarded). I do not offer any answers because I cannot even understand this moe point at all. Can you perhaps enlighten this confused anime viewer why in the world will people consider stupidity cute? I definitely cannot wait to pummel someone silly if anyone acts stupidly like that in real life.
40 Comments
Yay IMPZ finally tells it like it is! I was afraid I’m the only person who wanted to burn the Fuuko/Kotomi bandwagon ;D
Well because being retarded is seen as child-like and innocent, someone who doesn’t know any better. People see that as cute, adorable, and worthy of protection. I would figure a lolicon such as yourself would understand that, from my understanding the moe aspect of lolis is rooted in the same concept.
Also I think your conclusions on Fuuko are a bit off base. Sure she qualifies as retarded moe for the first few episodes, but her character shows its true colors in episode 9, the wedding episode. She didn’t act retarded, she acted completely selflessly in getting everyone to celebrate her sister’s wedding. She also tried to help Tomoya and Nagisa along because despite how she acts she knew how great they are together. So I would recommend re-watching episode 9 of Clannad before declaring her to be outright retarded.
KOTOMI ONLY NEEDS LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE
btw, that Fuuko fig looks horrible.
“btw, that Fuuko fig looks horrible.”
I second that notion.
Thought I was the only one who dislikes Fuuko. I mean, when I see her, I’m thinking if this is supposed to appeal me, and stare a bit mindless at my screen.
@Hinano: Hahahaha, I have always been open about the fact that I really hate retarded characters that act just like they have some extreme form of down syndrome when they are not.
@Calawain: I do not seem to consider innocence and retardness to be anything related. Innocence means a non-knowledge of anything that is coarse and distasteful worldly desires. However, retarded behavior is stupid behavior that is carried out due to the ..never mind. I find myself repeating.
I actually think Fuuko’s arc is somewhat saved by that episode but her general behavior nearly caused me to quit the series completely. I do not deny that at their point of time, she is NOT retarded but that is as much as I will concede for Kyoto Animation to save their flagship of retardness.
@Drm: Ya, dirt ugly. And kotomi is ok, but I cannot imagine how she can be that smart. Well, maybe she is just a tad bad at people.
I wouldn’t call this “Retarded Behavior”.
I’d say it is “Extremely Childish for a High School Girl” behavior. Which is the #1 reason why I think Fuuko is excellent comedy material (And Episode 12 seems to agree with this), but not much besides that. Her arc helped to get Tomoya and Nagisa a bit closer, which is fine by me.
I DUNNO IMPZ WHY ARE GREEN HAIRED LOLIS SO CUTE AND TRAPS SO HOT!!!
Haesslich should really come and reply at this post. He and I had a pretty good debate on this matter in a different manner.
First thing, impz, you TOTALLY do not understand moe. Moe is pretty much a feeling of love that is non-sexual in nature which can be aroused in a variety of ways. It’s akin to seeing little kids play around, or maybe even kittens as well. Don’t little kids and kittens act stupid at times? It’s really an internal maternal instinct we have.
Honestly speaking, I do find Fuko and Kotomi cute, and even moe, but I’m as much as attracted to them as I do towards the little kids or kittens I see playing around in the neighbourhood.
Of course, other people do find them rather cute, and it’s their opinion as so. I really find that asking them a reason why so is pretty insulting, especially when you yourself were infatuated with a certain fanged, green haired girl, and at one time proclaimed to love ALL girls with green hair on them.
Moe is just one of those things that differ from people to people, and questioning the reason why in such an insulting tone is just… retarded, sorry to say. Some things in life just don’t need rational explanations.
kur0, by love, do you man “I WANTS TO PROTECT HER” love or “I WANT TO STICK IT IN HER POOPER” love?
I’m guessing its the latter
oshi a second post i r dubbelposting :V
impz: Most geniuses are rather… … …eccentric. Einstein was a late bloomer, Edison had zero knowledge of copyright laws, the classical musicians were pretty weird themselves, etc. Kotomi could have an obssessive-compulsive disorder, Asperger’s or autism, though I’m not a psychologist and cannot give an expert opinion.
If Kotomi is a genius, well, we gotta accept that she might have some personality flaw.
I hear ya man. I honestly tried to like Fuuko because pantyhose are moe but she is totally stupid. I felt really let down because I had no idea she was one of those kinds of characters. Oh well.
IMPZ!!! Man, you’re so good. But…
go deeper…
It’s not just Fuuko and Kotomi. It’s also Nagisa (let’s stand in the rain with a basketball, let’s be infatuated with Dango Daikazoku, etc.) and Ryou (oh my god I’m so slow and incapable of speaking properly!!). And it’s not just Clannad, it’s Kanon and AIR, too. Misuzu, Minagi, Kano, Ayu, etc…
Basically, it’s Key. Retard girls = mooooeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
@Kurogane:
>>but I’m as much as attracted to them as I do towards the little kids or kittens I see playing around in the neighbourhood.
I’m seriously frightened for those poor little kids and kittens…
You talk about “Starfish Girl…” Meanwhile, I’m noticing down the hall some secondary male lead (who doesn’t know any better) having his butt kicked by some girl. You think he’d learn by now; he keeps coming back for more buttkick.
I came to the conclusion that Kyoto Animation is full of retards. And the fanbase for KyoAni are retarded.
Welcome home, folks. Welcome home.
I just realized Key’s habit….. the werid and annoying girl always goes away after a while! Matoko, Michiru, and Fuuko all went away… thank god they did, I liked everything about Clannad exepet the existence of fuuko. Later, when Clannad’s finished, I’m going to rewatch every episode exepet the ones with Fuuko in it. I even skipped her path in game and used someone’s save file to unlock the special ending.
Everyong who actually likes Fuuko deserves to have the biggest brainfreeze of their lives…
Kotomi’s awesome! And her line about the deer and the rabbit… If only tomoya knew it was her desperate attempt to… no, wait, I shouldn’t say anymore.
Why the hell would people give you crap for disliking Fuuko?
She acts like a complete kid and her character is so fake and unrealistic. I wish I could just jump into the screen and bitch slap her good so she would stop being annoying and acting half mentally challenged.
I think it’s pretty obvious: characters like Fuuko are created as a fantasy for ronery (sic), shy otakus who can’t interact with woman in an equitable relationship (Notice how I’m not saying that they can’t interact with woman at all). The want someone they can look upon, not someone they can treat like his equal.
I LIKE those Key stories, but I really can’t think on any other way to explain why those characters behave like they do. I think there can be good reasons to say why some series like this have good points: Fuuko’s efforts for her sister helping her to become more social, or the friendship devloping between the cast are, I think, well done. I’ve seen blogs from people that usually hate stuff like Clannad come up with good arguments to say it’s not-so-bad.
On the other hand, using the otaku-fantasy argument, I don’t really see how they are any different or worse than your usual eroge adaptation. Some are even worse: The blatant fanservice can become just ridiculous. So I really think that if you’re going to complain about how visual novel adaptations like this are just a frustrated otaku wishes, you shouldn’t be trying to watch them at all: you really have a good reason not to like them. They ARE shit.
So this is, I think, the point where discussions like this become a fight over who is the one watching good shows or just geeky fantasies— you know, the angry eroge fans saying: “LOL BUT YOU WATCH SHOWS LIKE GURREN LAGANN/HARUHI ETC.”. To this all I can say is: the one who doesn’t really enjoy AT LEAST one show for geeky reasons, and only watches anime as ART (lol), please, take a step foward. No one? So, please, stop feeling SUPERIOR than other fans.
I have to agree with kurogane on this one. He summed up what I thought exactly.
Answering Lametastic’s argument.
There’s nothing wrong with watching something for the sake of geekdom.
Michael Bay and his adaption of the Transformers (aka The Overtly Long Toy Commercial) had proved it once and for all: “Geek is only a small part of the larger entertainment puzzle. When you make Geek the main point, however; that’s when you fail.”
And superiority over who? Even cockroaches live better than most NEETS and tweekers. Plus they’re braver and more daring.
So yeah: I’m sick of the anime that mainly consists of pointless and retarded moe garbage and borderline softporn that plays from 10:00pm over in Japan. Nobody really knows how large the fanbase is; but we do know that it’s extremely vocal and proven to be mentally unstable.
Here’s the main problem: They don’t have really good alternatives to counter the garbage. The highly rated and normal-hour anime consists of art and animation that’s crappier than I can stand. And what American company would be brave/stupid enough to license “Gagmanga somethingrather?”
As I’ve been saying as “Tyrenol;” I don’t really make that much money. The last thing I want to do is waste it on something that turns out to be an unachievable goal. And I’m saddened that nobody had connected the dots about Gundam failing in the US due to said franchise being more moe than anything else.
Answering Kurogane’s argument:
Here’s the difference between finding something cute and finding something moe.
Kittens playing around is considered cute. Babies are cute. Cupcakes are cute.
Animated girls acting retarded (the “moe” everyone’s talking about) are a byproduct of the creation of people who haven’t gone to school and learned about plotpoints and story-creating.
In fact; “retardation” is not something that requires nurturing or protection. It requires treatment. Immediate treatment.
Welcome home.
@ Slightly Bald Wizard
You make a lot of comments here, all of them indicating how you hate some show or some character or another. I am curious as to whether you like anything. If not I really am not sure why you still watch all this stuff. And Gundam is moe? Uh……no
>>And superiority over who?
Well, I was talking about the fact that some people might say, that, per se, anime with moe girls is just awful stuff. I think I accepted that is a good reason to not like things like that at all. Moe is at its core, wish fulfilment. Felling disgusted by it? No problem. Anyway, nowadays, I don’t think you can say “moe totally sucks AND its fans are stupids who don’t know what kind of shit they are watching” without reflecting a little about your own tastes: I think it’s correct to say, for example, that Gurren Lagann (an most action shows) is, at some level, trying to sell you the idea of being a mindless macho who immolates himself to solve everything, so you, the fan, can feel more brave than you surely are in “real life” (LOL). It’s pandering to you as much as any other moe show! In fact, it’s clear that most anime panders to the fans in one way or another. That’s why saying that most moe fans are retards might as well be said about you, if you like some of the other 90% anime that’s done today.
BTW, if most anime is just fanservice, how can you actually say that what you like is actually not that bad, even when it’s probably also full of cliches and you probably are going to seem a bit hypocritical? Well, just accept that it indeed might have some bad elements, but it also can have good ones. Moe fans should do it, too. You can dislike the genre, and say it’s bad, but at least give the fans the right to say why it is doing what it tries to do right. Damn, even the best and most creative shows I’ve seen this year, like Dennou Coil, have some cliched, generic parts.
“btw, that Fuuko fig looks horrible.”
I third that notion
I started writing about Fuuko on http://www.animeomnitude.com I am currently getting more interested in it
Everytime you masturbate, someone goes FUUKO BAWWWWWWWWWWW and dreams of sticking it in her pooper.
So please, for the love of something, WANK.
I rock. (X ‘ ___ ‘)b
It’s because they are weak and need protection. It brings out the inner man in all otakus.
Same reason why the clumsy and stupid Tsukasa is so moe.
Downs syndrome is moeee~!
I’m gonna be a complete retard and ask….What does MOE mean??? Sorry….I know…I know…
I first came across this word in Ouran HS Host Club and I’m sure they had a note in the subs somewhere, but I’m too lazy to look for the episode…. XD
Calawain: “And Gundam is moe? Uh……no”
Gundam SEED? And its sequal Destiny? Noboby knew that a “real robot” show farnchise existed until it turned into a “super robot” show and shook its nice butt. Welcome home.
Also, I’m not a fan of Gurren Lagann. I thought Gainax should cease to exist the moment it showed the white sticky stuff that was on Shinji Ikari’s hand.
What I do like: Busou Renkin. El Hazard: The Wanderers. Xebec’s Negima. Gonzo’s Trinity Blood, Chrono Crusade, and Glass Fleet. E’s Otherwise. Morning Mist Shrine. Hell; h-anime like Bible Black and Discipline.
And “catering to viewers.” That’s exactly what I’ve been trying to tell you. If companies are gonna throw moe garbage at people, there should atleast be some other company to create something for the rest of us. But if everyone’s gonna follow the money and/or do what everybody else is doing; then these people should accept the injury they get when people’s taste change. By that time, these people had better create something hella better than a bunch of retarded girls who make stupid verbal sound effects.
But you know what? Whoever said that “it’s just my opinion” is right. I shouldn’t get all carried away over a bunch of foreign cartoons. I know that I’ll never be able to have sex with someone like Fuuko or Kotomi. I accepted the idea tha masturbation is a byproduct of situations where the genitals of the opposite sex are not readily available when the need is greater than the means to get them.
Seriously, though: Who here has a girlfriend that isn’t drawn, animated, or some lifeless dummy? Can you still be an anime fan and have a girlfriend?
@Slightly Bald Wizard: So you’re asking if it’s possible to be an anime fan and have a girlfriend, in the anime blog of someone who has a girlfriend.
The mind boggles.
DKellis: I don’t visit that often. I work for a living; I don’t make it my business whether somebody’s girlfriend is real or not.
@Slightly Bald Wizard: And yet you make the blanket assumption inherent in the phrasing of the question that you don’t believe anime fans have girlfriends.
At least know what you’re talking about before, well, talking.
On topic: For my case, I don’t care about Fuuko either way. I don’t hate her, I don’t like her, I simply don’t care. She’s just there, as a character, like Random Female Classmate Number 24.
However, I’ve also accepted that there’s a lot of things I don’t understand (like, as I keep mentioning elsewhere, the concept of “GAR”), and I don’t see the point of hating the fan reactions to them, even if the concept itself is distasteful.
Hating something because others like it strikes me as a bit too meta.
I also dislike Fuuko, I can’t stand her childish and nonsensical behaviour (giving away wooden starfishes to invite complete strangers to her sister’s wedding? what’s the meaning of this? she should have looked for Kouko’s former students. You know, the ones she actually cared for).
OTOH I love Kotomi. She is not retarded, she is a genius girl with autistic tendencies, and that triggers my desire to protect her (=moe). I’ll admit that her huge rack and her going around barefooted add a lot to her appeal. Not to mention Noto-sama’s heavenly voice. *_*
DKellis: How about we make a deal.
I’ll stop making blanket assumptions about anime fans having no girlfriends.
You and the rest of the anime fandom stop making decisions for the rest of us who are trying to enjoy anime; stop ruining the story I might like with moe, blue-balling, and that so-called “slapstick comedy.”
Oh no, what are you guy’s doing, are you question Kyoto Animation’s decision on something as imperfect? I don’t think you can do that anymore.
Honestly, all of this has nothing to do with people specifically liking the characters Fuuko and Kotomi sincerely. I don’t even think the question really needs an answer that goes as deep as questioning the merits of moe and whether it is pandering or not, because it seems more simple to me then that:
Answer: They just go for it because the show is by Kyoto Animation, and many initiate fans just automatically like everything that Kyoto Animation does without really bothering to think about it to deeply. To these fans, everything Kyoto Animation does is a stroke of divine inspiration, and seperating the weak elements in their shows, which I feel a good example of is Fuko’s writing in Clannad, and the strong elements of include the animation and Nagisa’s writing, is not even a consideration. They don’t even have to really try to make a character deep and involving or even move for that matter for people to find them interesting, hence why it may appear to you that people find characters that behave like a toddler moe. If there were a character like Fuko in another anime then she would likely be very unpopular and people would balk at the childish behaviour exhibited by this teenager as poor character writing. So yeah really it’s not a moe trait and never was, it’s just that it happens to be a trait of a character in a Kyoani show, and that automatically makes it desirable to a lot of fans. And I agree Impz, it is quite frustrating that these people can’t think for themselves to the point that they can realize Fuko is a really screwy character, but this is what we’re dealing with in the anime community right now.
I mostly just ignore these fans these days anyway and don’t take what they say with anything resembling sincerety anymore, there’s no reasoning with them, there’s no having a good discussion with them, there’s no true way to get them to reveal their feelings about why they like what they like in any meaningful way, because there is none. They are gone as far as discretion in anime is concerned and have no real value for the things they claim they like. Once a fan catches the Kyoani syndrome it’s over for them and even getting them to acknowledge good character writing by any other studio is a feat in and of itself, let alone to acknowledge that being head over heels for Fuko without any good reason might be considered by others to be….well odd to say the least.
And I’m not saying all of this to be mean, because I already feel a bit guilty about basically slamming half the known anime fanbase. It’s nothing personal to anyone, but it’s seriously a sad truth and something that I’m still learning to live with since I can’t go back in time.
Fuko is absolutely cute.
You gat a problem with Fuuko, take it to Maeda Jun. He’s the one in charge of Key until recently, and if there’s any weak spot with the writing, it’s his fault for ‘going up’ to the reader and making them cry with ‘death threats’ and heavy-handed emotional writing.
Is it just me, or whenever I see a sad Key ending or event, I imagine Maeda Jun throttling me and going “CRY DARN YOU CRY!”? It’s a rather funny mental image, and well, :V
I’ve read your article, and I think you’ve made a good point, particularly the quote from Kyoto. It’s also hard for me to describe why I like her, though I don’t think it’s moe in my case… it’s just a specific girl. I’m sure if you put the same ‘retarded’ gait on another girl, it wouldn’t be the same, so it’s not the moe I like, just Fuko.
I tried to put it in perspective, and I think her retarded characteristic is just a plot device for humor. Most of the comedy with her stems from her retarded aspect, but during the important plot developments, retardedness doesn’t play a role at all. So, she isn’t a ‘retarded’ moe girl, just a girl with that being one side of her.
Oh, and another reason that I think Fuko isn’t retarded-moe girl is because although I’m usually pretty indignant about retarded people (ACTUALLY RETARDED PEOPLE in the real world), but I didn’t get any resentful bells while watching Fuko.
god danm i completely agree who the hell thinks a retard in any form is moe
>>Slightly Bald Wizard January 3rd, 2008 2:55 pm
Answering Kurogane’s argument:
Here’s the difference between finding something cute and finding something moe.
Kittens playing around is considered cute. Babies are cute. Cupcakes are cute.
Animated girls acting retarded (the “moe” everyone’s talking about) are a byproduct of the creation of people who haven’t gone to school and learned about plotpoints and story-creating.
In fact; “retardation” is not something that requires nurturing or protection. It requires treatment. Immediate treatment.
Welcome home.
@Slighty Bald Wizard
if you have a blog, i’d read it.
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[...] Why is being a complete retard a moe trait? I need answers! As a partial reply to his entry, I think that Kyoto Animation’s portrayal of Clannad’s girls bordered on the ridiculous with Fuuko and Kotomi. This is the quote from Crusader shown below. I firmly believe that while aesthetics play … [...]
[...] 4, 2008 impz posits a serious question to this [...]
[...] about why Fuuko’s arc worked for me so we won’t go into the details about why Fuuko supposedly sucks since this works under the premise that, as shocking as it may seem, Fuuko as a character [...]
[...] of opinion I suppose. Although I would suspect that her moeness is less in dispute then that of Fuko. Regardless I found her to be pretty damn moe, and at the beginning that was about all we got from [...]